New York, Bigger?

[Haste]

The problem isn't so much giving unlawfuls space to work with in Gallia, it's just that it feels horribly crowded with about two dozen planets too many in IDF.

I know that they're there to emphasize how very powerful Gallia is and how many resources it has or had access to, but hell. With how close together everything is in Freelancer, it just looks ridiculous.

---

[Thexare]

Last I heard there were some limits to how many dockables could be in one system, and that was the reason the capital systems never got much expansion.

Might be wrong though.

Then how does Ile-De-France exist?

IDF only has three more bases than New York. And, though it's not relevant to the dockable count, three of IDF's bases are seperate rings for the same planet.

[Soul Reaper]

Last I heard there were some limits to how many dockables could be in one system, and that was the reason the capital systems never got much expansion.

Might be wrong though.

Then how does Ile-De-France exist?

IDF only has three more bases than New York. And, though it's not relevant to the dockable count, three of IDF's bases are seperate rings for the same planet.

Without adding in the two extra docking rings, IDF should have like 3 more bases than NY. (Nvm read that part wrong). And even then, I've seen multiple mods (including NSU I believe) have more than like 20 bases in a single system, although I think they were admin-only systems, though that wouldn't counter the argument anyway.

---

User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=114477
Time left: (Permanent)

[Kazinsal]

I honestly can't imagine why anyone would WANT that many dockables in one system. That I feel is part of the reason why no one wants to go to gallia. There's too much clutter.

---

Retired, permanently.

[Altejago]

So, look at New York. It's basically the same New York as per 2(1?) years ago inRP.

I mean it was (isn't atm) the center of trade for Sirius, and the war(s) have only been going on (LI-RM/BR-KU/GA-Sirius) for what, 3 years inRP?

I don't see how New York isn't..bigger. Not physical system size though, I mean population/station density.

It has a hardware store (trenton), a giant bank and general trade hub (Newark), a military academy (WP, obviously), a military shipyard (Norfolk) and a civilian shipyard (baltimore). Oh, it also sports a police station (Bush) and a -mostly civilian- arms factory.

That does seem a lot, but if you look at it from a different perspective, it actually isn't. Basically all corporations(which are pretty damn big) in Liberty are almost completely privatized (inRP)-except maybe for Ageira- yet only two of them have their own production structures, DSE and Ageira, and Ageira's station isn't even line with their main objective.

There should be more stuff. I doubt those corporations would just make their stuff planet-side when they could have just constructed private stations.

Look at Ilde-de-France. Now that's cool, but no one ever uses that system compared to any of the other house capitals. No where near as many people.

Shouldn't New York be a bit more...dense? Multiple docking rings on Manhattan perhaps? More lane connections that support research station(s), corporate headquarters? Foreign corporate stations (bowex, kishiro, etc) even? More production facilities? Perhaps border stations as well, considering it was the center of trade a few years back, it should have those, no?

Almost forgot about Rochester and Buffalo, well, buffalo wouldn't matter from the perspective I'm looking at it. But Rochester probably would, since even inRP it's no longer just a station to smelt scrap, more like an extremely shady freeport to be honest.

DSE has a PoB outside Pittsburgh for extra factory production facilities.

Also has Toronto and Camrose in two other systems.

Then there is game mechanics and how many polygons etc etc that should be displayed on the screen to reduce computer lag.

Then there is the shear lack of logic in Disco.

Take your pick.

---

[Omicron]

There is such thing as planet-side industry INRP.

Oh then all we need is planets ye?

Also there's the whole you know, "bringing up giant finished products from the planet into space" against "bringing up just resources" (for ore), then there's "bringing up finished products up to space from planets" against "simply undocking a ship that was manufactured in space".

Efficiency. It's called realism. It's what Roleplaying in a Hyper-reality is based on. Hello.

Efficiency - you have orbital elevators aka docking rings that make said "bringing up" mere cents worth instead of what you think it would take. Building on planets is cheaper. I do not see neccesity for any orbital factories unless said products need indeed zero-G or are capship sized - which I believe most of the manufacturing in space is all about in Freelancer. Space is dangerous and 99% of human population still sits on planets over there.

---

[Soul Reaper]

DSE has a PoB outside Pittsburgh for extra factory production facilities.

Also has Toronto and Camrose in two other systems.

Then there is game mechanics and how many polygons etc etc that should be displayed on the screen to reduce computer lag.

Then there is the shear lack of logic in Disco.

Take your pick.

I'm not talking about PoBs, they don't actually come into play in RP as NPC stations do, because, they can be destroyed.

Those two don't have anything to do with New York, and DSE is only -one- of the multiple factions residing in New York.

Pretty sure a couple of caps have many more polys than your average station.

This is the only real legitimate reason, and well, I guess this is the one that devs care about.

Efficiency - you have orbital elevators aka docking rings that make said "bringing up" mere cents worth instead of what you think it would take. Building on planets is cheaper. I do not see necessity for any orbital factories unless said products need indeed zero-G or are capship sized - which I believe most of the manufacturing in space is all about in Freelancer. Space is dangerous and 99% of human population still sits on planets over there.

There are many types of "factories", just as many materials we have on Earth today, Sirius has many more than those, and many more things to build/construct/do. I'm not gonna go into science, neither of us know anything about that bit, it's just assumed. So I very much doubt the only thing Sirius manufactures is ships. Oh and, even if it was, let's not forget that in any case, building ships in space is easier. Why? No gravity.

Other than that, there could easily be political reasons and the such, a faction with their own station easily has much, much more privacy compared to something planet-side. Yes, space is dangerous, but so is a planet, humans simply have the means to survive on a planet easily. And considering Sirius is technologically advanced enough to wage war in space on a frequent basis, then I think it's safe to assume Sirius also has the required technology to easily survive.

Please don't try and turn this into a completely scientific socio-cultural hyper-reality argument Golly, I'll win it, I google faster than you.

-

So, any other reasons to not make New York (or even other capital systems) more dense? That is, let me remind you people that this is simply a discussion, it won't actually go anywhere because the people making the decisions are well...heh, the people making the decisions.

---

User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=114477
Time left: (Permanent)

[Altejago]

Pretty sure a couple of caps have many more polys than your average station.

Yeah, they do. But they can't stop the amount of caps being flown but they can reduce the number of static polygons to assist those laggy as hell cap battles.

When we wanted our DSE supergate, they told us a limit of polygons to prevent lag.

Go to that crappy Gallic system with all the pretty bases and have a cap battle there and see how well a low end PC performs then.

EDIT: New York is the hub for new players and popular activity point. Seems like a relatively stupid idea to throw more rendering dynamics ni where there is likely to be tens of capitals congregating and fighting, not too mention the amount of other vessels traversing the area.

---

[Echo 7-7]

So, basically, you're asking me to make the bases in New York larger?

(I'm not really in the mood to resize the system... that's a hell of a lot of work for questionable benefit.)


Edit: Yes, I'm fairly certain there is a limit to the number of dockables in any one system (due to engine limitations); New York isn't quite there but I don't see the need for any more bases. Possibly the only base that could be worth having in Liberty is a Cryer base somewhere, but I'd prefer to give them Bethlehem Station in Pennsylvania.

I guess planetary economics is a little bit understated, as their complexity is condensed into a single base due to game mechanics.

I don't think that giving bases more components will significantly effect lag or framerate, as they're fairly simple models to render with multiple LODs (at least the vanilla stuff) and they're not moving either.

---

There was a sig here, once.

[Soul Reaper]

Yeah, they do. But they can't stop the amount of caps being flown but they can reduce the number of static polygons to assist those laggy as hell cap battles.

When we wanted our DSE supergate, they told us a limit of polygons to prevent lag.

Go to that crappy Gallic system with all the pretty bases and have a cap battle there and see how well a low end PC performs then.

EDIT: New York is the hub for new players and popular activity point. Seems like a relatively stupid idea to throw more rendering dynamics ni where there is likely to be tens of capitals congregating and fighting, not too mention the amount of other vessels traversing the area.

Erm...we're in the year 2014. Anything called "crappy" in this year can -easily- run Freelancer on maximum settings and probably easily get over 60 fps. For example, my laptop.

Any computer almost anywhere in the world worse than that doesn't actually deserve to be called a computer anymore anyway.

Also, how is your example any different from what we have now? It's not going to get any worse, you'll simply be fighting at another base. Large fights in a system in discovery tend to happen in the same place, there's generally only -one- large fight in any given system at one time, and they're generally near bases anyway. So nothing's gonna change frame rate-wise.

So, basically, you're asking me to make the bases in New York larger?

(I'm not really in the mood to resize the system... that's a hell of a lot of work for questionable benefit.)


Edit: Yes, I'm fairly certain there is a limit to the number of dockables in any one system (due to engine limitations); New York isn't quite there but I don't see the need for any more bases. Possibly the only base that could be worth having in Liberty is a Cryer base somewhere, but I'd prefer to give them Bethlehem Station in Pennsylvania.

I guess planetary economics is a little bit understated, as their complexity is condensed into a single base due to game mechanics.

I don't think that giving bases more components will significantly effect lag or framerate, as they're fairly simple models to render with multiple LODs (at least the vanilla stuff) and they're not moving either.

No no no..-more- bases. As, numerically more. Not larger..larger just means more room to base hug.

---

User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=114477
Time left: (Permanent)