Rewrite and rebalance the Pirate ID so that it's actually used for piracy

[Corile]

Just remove the gunboat accesibility with exceptions to just the generic gb like Montante, Condor (?). Oh, and Pirate ID is by far the best way to pick up a fight, only next to Connecticut. To be fair, I liked it that way, to have something to shoot, everywhere. But well, it does affect the other local unlawful IDs of that place.

Maybe let's go a bit further and just remove the gunboats altogether from the ID. It would probably benefit everyone, including haters of a particular Corsair boat and these newbie pirates that scratched up enough money for their first gunboat, fly it without armor, get killed by one snac and never return to the server again.

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Reflections on the Revolution in Gallia
Custodi // High City of Heraklion // The Cult of Archangels
Log Filter // Post Creator // Manhattan

[Tutashkhia]

FYI Pirate ID is ONLY allowed to assist other Pirate ID's.

I've flown nothing else, but only Pirate ID for 6 years and never had any problems with it. If you feel any of GNG is violating rule, do report it either on forum, or let me know about it. And yes, when others shoot me, my friends assist me. When someone is shot, we assist the same way too.

If you wish to go shoot them up, you should grab a non-generic faction ID. That adds to the house locale, rather than adding in independent pirates.

For that I don't really have to grab any other faction ID,I never liked any of them. Lawfuls come to us on their own, which of course ends with fighting.

I rarely see GNG on when the player count is as low as you describe. I have to ask you though, why can't you just do this with a house-unlawful ID? It's much more logical. How a small time group of pirates gather the resources required to wage all out wars on lawfuls?

Do you call 60 or even 70 people online, the real ACTIVITY? We mostly log at the peak time, when the server use to have 190+ people online.Comparing to that, 60 and 70 are nothing. And I rarely see 70+ people ingame, only in weekends.
Tell me one thing, does it really matter for you with what ID I pirate or kill in any system? Actually, whenever the group is gathered only maximum 2-3 players are using the pirate ID, the rest are with Rogues and Hackers.
I can do what I do with Pirate and compared to any other faction-unlawful ID I prefer Pirate one. I never loved any faction ID,their rules and officials' orders. inRP I can explain in a bit different way too, and many got explained ingame. I have to ask you though, why can't you just ask for removing the Pirate ID then? Mostly Pirate IDs are used in the house systems, so from you point of view, It's not even needed.

Well duh. Have you forgotten you're pirates? Lawfuls are going to try to enforce the law.

Here is the point. When you decide to be a Pirate, you must be ready for any danger. One question came to my mind, do they imagined what could that "enforce of law" may cause?Actually that causes the thing, you're complaining about here right now. Tell me a single silly Pirate/Unlawful who obeys their orders.

law enforcement enforcing their role.

I understand that too. But, being an unlawful and being a lawful is two totally different ways of life, as in this game as in the real life too.

The Pirate ID is meant to be used for, guess what, piracy. It is not meant to be used as an open terrorist ID.

You still cannot answer my question I asked some times ago. Mercenaries see you(pirate/unlawful) in the System, they start thinking: "Oh,there is a bounty on their head, I will go earn some easy cash". Lawfuls see you in the System, they start thinking: "Oh,they again! Damnit it, I've to enforce them to leave or pay fine, or just arrest them" While you're just undocking from the base and heading to the TL which is near any Jump Gate in that system. From the time lawfuls/mercenaries see you in their system, they start looking for you to do what they really have to. Here is the question, how the hell you'll continue pirating when you get surrounded by the bunch of LABCs, some Cloaking Battleships, or bombers/fighters? I usually don't pay attention to their snubs. But as they start shooting to our bombers all the time, I really have to cover them, just to make the opponents' snubs fall back.

Are you serious? You've never read the group chats of those who have to shoot you, or the Liberty Lawful E-chat. You'll find the opinions of those you shoot very conflicting to your own.

Actually I have never been interested in their group or Skype chats. But still, some funny chats reach to me too,and all I can do is to read and laugh. I spent some days in Liberty Lawful E-chat, but heard nothing weird from them. I could only see msgs of this meaning: "Pirates in New York, log in let's kill them".

In situations like that it doesn't really matter who shoots first. The pirate doesn't initiate fights because he's more focused on piracy. Lawfuls who wish to enforce the law will deal with those who are breaking it - violently if needed.

From your point of view all the Pirates, who use to play or still plays FL are ID abusers.
I've to think that you don't learn Physics at school. That's why I think you're only 6 or 7 grade-guy. Otherwise you would know the "The Law Of Inertia".
Let me explain you what it really means. Actually it was written by Isaac Newton. Here is the little definition: "An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force." If you can't understand that too, I'll tell you it in an easier way: "A body will preserve its velocity and direction so long as no force in its motion's direction acts on it."

I've been witness to many situations where your group and others have been vigilantly seeking out Lawfuls to hunt and kill. That's what you've admitted in your post. Majority of the time that's what's seen when you do log into NY. What are usually the first blues to be seen by Pirate ID'd groups that decide to take up the roles of terrorists? Not trader blues, that's for sure.

You really wonder me mate. Yes, I don't deny that fact.... but that happens rarely, when lawfuls make us worry about them. When you log and you don't get surrounded by lawfuls (That happens really really really rarely) I start worrying about them. I start worrying about them.
Then as I said above, majority of the time you log in the wrong time, when lawfuls have already retreated to their bases, and lengthen their tongues there. That's really known fact. Majority of the time you should see that.

Like I said though I really want to refrain from specifically targeting your group but unfortunately it yields good examples.

This post is openly about me, as much as this post is about Pirate ID in Liberty. 'cause mostly I'm the only one who flies with Pirate ID there, the rest are with Hackers,Rogues, Outcasts too. And If I'm too lucky, I rarely meet one or two more

[sindroms]

Imho, the Pirate ID should be a sub-par choice to official pirate IDs. From a gameplay perspective. I don't even think that implementing a nerf towards any non-civ gunboat would help. The Pirate ID should simply be on the same level the Miner ID is to other mining-orientated IDs. Allowed anywhere, unable to dock on stations belonging to competition and not as good.

Frankly, the problem here is that the ID can work together with other non-generic IDs and thus allows imbalanced technology mixes. An unlawful force consisting of Pirate IDs, FL IDs and one Rogue ID is just too varid in terms of technology used, most commonly ending up as a scylla employing ascos. Or, like we had yesterday, an OC ID tridente hiring freelancers and working together a Pirate IDed corsair gunboat in NY.

In other words:

Make the Pirate ID hostile to and unable to ally with any Non-Generic unlawful ID.
Allow Pirate IDs to only engage in piracy against transports, leaving "Can engage lawfuls within their zone of influence" to non-generic IDs.

Or combine the existing ID with the Freelancer ID and do away with the Pirate ID completely, so that the ''cannot be hired by non-generic IDs'' comes into play.

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[Mímir]

Leave my Pirate ID alone, Lyth!

It's already pretty bad in terms of engagement rights and diplomacy / no-dock. If you want to wreck havoc, an Outcast ID is far, far superior (grants better tech, even caps), so the point is kinda moot.

If people use the ID to attack without prior demands, then it's a rules violation and belong in a sanction report. The same can be said about every single ID in the mod.

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[Lythrilux]

OP, you're suggesting that a change be made to reduce player interaction.

I don't see how it will. Pirates can still pirate, they just don't abuse the ID. If they want to go hunt the lawfuls themselves, they can play a merc or a house-pirate ID.

You suggest changes to an ID based on players misbehaving, rather than the function of the ID itself. The ID already indicates that demands must be made and the abusers ignore it, what makes you think abusers will respect a change in the wording? Lolwuts create lawful tags and shoot unlawfuls without engagement notices, too... it's not a unique situation.

I didn't say that was the only form of abuse, I just said that that is the influence coming from people abusing the ID (players are lead to believe it's ok to use the Pirate ID like a house-pirate ID). The abuse comes from people hunting down snubs and capital ships and asking for piracy demands. 99/100 times those players will not meet a demand. Pirate ID players know what they're doing and they know that they can target those players with shallow demands that don't have the purpose to gain money but rather have the purpose to get the pirate a blue message.

This seems like a request for the privilege to knee-jerk sanction report anyone with a generic Pirate ID whenever a lawfu's encounter with them doesn't go in their favor. Lawfuls don't need more rules that protect them in house space. Rather, they could simply log onto their ships (the magnitude and quality of which GREATLY outmatch the potential pirates' vessels) and actually defend that space by playing the game. Choosing a generic Pirate ID is like agreeing to a blanket FR5, are lawfuls just upset that they don't get to issue the order for it?

Uggghhhhh, I don't think you're reading my post properly. I'm going to make something with big red letters later down to explain this because some people don't understand my point.

Also, I want to say something about the Black Market...

No. I'm not going to touch up upon this too deeply because it's a stupid justification for getting technology. By that logic, I actually have to ask why red cells exist at all in the game?

You can only choose to add products to the black market, you can't choose to remove products from it. I'll give a quick rundown of how a ship ends up in generic Pirate ID hands: Ships get blown up, not instantaneously incinerated. Wreckage is left behind, which can be collected. Collect enough wreckage of the same model of ship and you just might find yourself with enough parts to construct that ship. Voila, you now have a ship that no faction shipyard manufactured for you.

The thing is though before factions COULD do something about people taking their technology from them. However that ability was removed.

Does it make more sense that a known criminal can somehow get his hands on something they shouldn't have, or that every faction only contains entirely trustworthy individuals who would never sell their tech on the black market, and moreover successfully recover every scrap of wreckage from every one of their destroyed ships AND scrub all the drives of all the systems that could have revealed key technical information via hacked comm terminal?

Does it make sense that a random pirate can successfully and continually maintain a stolen piece of technology on his own?

FYI Pirate ID is ONLY allowed to assist other Pirate ID's.

I've flown nothing else, but only Pirate ID for 6 years and never had any problems with it. If you feel any of GNG is violating rule, do report it either on forum, or let me know about it. And yes, when others shoot me, my friends assist me. When someone is shot, we assist the same way too.

It was a recent change when some ID wording was redone.

I'm sorry I didn't respond to the rest of your post Tuta but I really feel like you're completely missing my point throughout your post.

I am not asking that Pirate ID'd ships would never be allowed to engage lawfuls ever and when lawfuls come to shoot them they'd have to sit like a rock and wait for the horror to be over, I am asking for a change so that the Pirate ID can no longer be used like an open Terrorist ID: Pirate ID'd ships going around and making shallow demands to law enforcement ships for the sake of being able to get a blue out of them is not the Pirate ID playing it's role. You would be able to do piracy as you would normally, minus being able to make demands against anything that isn't a transport, meaning that you won't be able to waltz around acting like a terrorist. If you want to play something that can hunt law enforcement, grab and ID that allows such, rather than abusing the Pirate ID. The Pirate ID is meant to be a gateway into faction-pirate IDs, The Pirate ID should be sup-par to faction-pirate IDs.

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[Mímir]

What abuse are we talking about here?
I happily pirate combat ships - and make a better profit at that than pirating traders, seeing that fighters leave lots of expensive ammo I can scoop up when they are dead. It's not abuse, people have the choice of just paying the pirate. I usually ask for 50,000 up to half a million (if the guy has been annoying), and nobody pays. I've asked for nanos, nobody gives. So all in all, a dead combat ship is more profitable for a pirate than a dead transport.

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[Lythrilux]

What abuse are we talking about here?
I happily pirate combat ships - and make a better profit at that than pirating traders, seeing that fighters leave lots of expensive ammo I can scoop up when they are dead. It's not abuse, people have the choice of just paying the pirate. I usually ask for 50,000 up to half a million (if the guy has been annoying), and nobody pays. I've asked for nanos, nobody gives. So all in all, a dead combat ship is more profitable for a pirate than a dead transport.

I would say your case is more of an exception to the norm Mimir, typically Transports will always provide more cash than a snub will. Don't forget that people aren't just popping snubs, they're shooting up caps too. And those have a lot less profitable ammo to drop.

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[Mímir]

How so, when the transports don't pay?

It burns through regens during the fight, and doesn't carry anything expensive that I can carry. My Sabre's cargohold is too tiny and the places I can sell goods too few to make anything out of the cargo. No, expensive ammo is where it is at.

If it makes people feel better to call that abuse, then go ahead and call it that.

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[pillow]

What abuse are we talking about here?
I happily pirate combat ships - and make a better profit at that than pirating traders, seeing that fighters leave lots of expensive ammo I can scoop up when they are dead. It's not abuse, people have the choice of just paying the pirate. I usually ask for 50,000 up to half a million (if the guy has been annoying), and nobody pays. I've asked for nanos, nobody gives. So all in all, a dead combat ship is more profitable for a pirate than a dead transport.

That actually sounds pretty fun to do.

[Tutashkhia]

minus being able to make demands against anything that isn't a transport, meaning that you won't be able to waltz around acting like a terrorist.

I enjoyed Pirating combat ships lots of times. I enjoy pirating their caps, their snubs, their neighbors, and their friends. I like pirating anything that is somehow above 40 or 50 rank, if it's possible of course.
I never cared how much profitable ammo caps or snubs are going to leave when they get destroyed. I always enjoyed getting paid by a lawful Capship or snub, not because I have a lack of money or I do piracy just to increase my cash.
I will say the truth, I enjoy pirating lawful combat ships more than Traders. Traders are more profitable for Pirates, but pirating a lawful is somehow funny and interesting. I have done that some times, usually when the lonely Capship runs into the bunch of pirates where he really have no chance. That time, we usually demand some cash in an interesting and funny way. I enjoy it more than pirating normal Traders. Mostly traders these days are not even talkative and simply refuse whatever you demand them.
Pirate anything that is just pirate-able... And as Mimir said above, If it makes people feel better to call that abuse, then go ahead and call it that.

P.S I've pirated a Pirate IDed ship and normal unlawful-faction IDed ships too. As long as the proper RP is done, I don't call it an abuse.