New York isn't the best place to start, it has no greater position, layout or features that aren't present within any other capital system. People go to New York simply because they know someone is going to be there which forms a vicious cycle and not but a few years ago you could head into almost any House to find activity. The difference now is that people don't seem to want to be part of a living server ecosystem, they want quick fights, quick money and instant gratification.
No amount of system design, economy changes or storyline movement will change that. It is entirely down to the community.
The goal behind moving new players out of Penn is to remove them from that self-sustaining cycle and show them the greater variety that Disco has to offer, exposing them to life on the server whilst providing enough information for them to actively participate and thrive. Having new players all experience the same "play pen" as it were, doesn't foster that kind of environment as it is far removed from server life. Without any of the existing community to answer the questions of a new player it becomes a case of the blind leading the blind.
Personally I'm in favour of a hub system for new players, much like Piombo's, that contains a single dockable station with one way jumpholes to the various capital worlds and battleship solars (non-dockable) that provide a background story for each House when their info is viewed. Though I think putting new players at Crete, Malta and Omicrons may not be the best idea, gotta ease folks in and allow them to discover on their own rather than putting them into hostile turf within the first 5 minutes.
This would be almost like a lobby of sorts, a place where new players could gain an overview of the mods story by reading the various station cards before deciding where they'd like to go next. For example Bretonia's could read:
"Bretonia is a House populated by decendents of those from the United Kingdom. The people there value their traditions, their Queen and quiet determination.
All is not well within the stoic House as the Gallic invasion has taken the Leeds system and now stands ready to attack New London. The people of Bretonia are working tirelessly to protect their homes while the Mollys of Dublin fight for their independence and to protect their mining fields filled with gold from Bretonian Mining and Machinery exploitation and Corsair assaults. The Gaians, aided by their Corsair allies, struggle to maintain the precious natural ecology of worlds who are being manipulated by Planetform Inc and Orbital Spa & Cruise.
Hope is not lost however, vital aid from the Liberty Navy helps keep the Bretonian Armed Forces in the fight while their allies the Council, Free Brigands, Unione Corse and Crayer Republic engage the Gallic Royal Navy in fierce guerilla warfare. Aided by the covert actions of Queen Catarina's Privateers, pirates with letters of marque who steal and distrupt supplies needed by the Gallic advance."
Or something to that effect.
However, this would lack the recognizable landmarks newcomers may remember from the story campaign. Cortez would offer something widely known whilst providing a reasonably stable starting point at Curacao (due to OS&C's general neutrality) that isn't removed from the storyline. Things don't need to be sign posted if the information needed is available either by the starter items or by passing players, the sooner they see how the server works the sooner they can begin to explore it.
@"Sombra Hookier" I'm not sure if you realize, but your post was pretty much able to make me less interested into logging and doing stuff in Disco... I don't know how and why, I just feel more than discouraged after reading your post. Wow. Just wow.
P.S. Those pictures in the second post are made with MODDED Discovery.
This little bird went to sleep forever. So long.
Thank you for everything.
@"Sombra Hookier"
How about you post pictures WITHOUT all your mods to make your point look good?
I disagree with your evaluation on Penn and I dont care if you dont care that i.... yeah .
The argument just doesn't make sense that you are saying. I disagree that there is one of everything. I disagree that it is crammed. I disagree that there is no atmosphere.
I like you, but you need to stop foisting your views on the community just because you have good graphical design skills to embellish your points. You can't just make these gigaposts in every thread and expect people to concur.
For one thing, that activity sheet is completely, utterly wrong. Second part is "too many solars (para)" is a terrible argument as its solars that make systems interesting and large amounts of them do not harm gameplay.
New York is a crap, boring system. It's absolute crap. Only two field types and three planetary solars. It's only because it's right in the middle of everything anybody gives it the bloody time of day.
As for Rheinland, the large size of the house is helpful because it makes piracy more competetive. System size in systems with lanes is fairly irrelevant anyhow and gives police more to do, as unlawfuls are incentivised to use trade lanes. Frankfurt is a great system because it has one lane - everybody - has to go down, which creates a natural interaction point. It balances that huge scale by having easy-to-get-to Jump Holes for unlawfuls into NB and Dresden and Bremen (Unioners), and Sigmas, Munich (Bundschuh).
Ill De France is the most beautiful, most well thought out system in the mod. Gallia had some of its most beautiful systems removed because a bunch of people who don't even play in the house demanded their removal and it still did nothing for Gallic activity. Berry was damn beautiful, as was Anjou, as was Maine, which retconned a lot of people's RP and threw the entire concept of the first gallic war out of the window.
Look, people have to agree we're never going to concur about this stuff, and just bloody log in instead of demotivating each other with this crap.
What about those of us who just want to play in Gallia? I just want to play in Gallia.
Pennsylvania could use the improvements that Spazzy explained. Make it in a way that new people can learn like they used to with the added bonus of active players moving through. Right now it is mostly used to move around since Vespucci/Kansas was hammered into the Jump Hole layout.
I am highly against the idea of making a system with one way holes or something. People should join the game and that would be even less populated by players.
(06-26-2017, 01:56 PM)Sici Wrote: @Croft
Well, this OSC lobby could not be more open. Croft, please.
Thanks for that Sici, gave me a good chuckle.
Back on topic,
I remember a lot of the old NWN RP servers using a similar system. A nexus were all the starting information was displayed in an OORP fashion before players would venture into the world beyond. The literal system wouldn't be a place to hang around, it would simply be the easiest way to expose new players to all the colonies and their stories by presenting the essence of each House. If we have something eye catching and clearly typical of the House (e.g. Battleships) to host infocards that convey what's currently going on, newcomers could get a far broader idea of Disco rather than being stuck together in Liberty.
I think Pennsylvania is a good compromise. You can even RP there.
And it has stations of Zoners, Navy, Police, Junkers and Rogues.
It even has some good sell and buy points. So veteran players can
turn to it with RP reasons. I do that nearly everytime I log to the server
for some time.
A complete OORP starting. system is what we really don't need.
Maybe Pennsylvania could be more integrated in RP lore.
Also I'm not convinced that it is wise to spread the players even more
on the map. When I started with discovery there were 200+ players and
most of the map was used. But now we don't have half of them. So it's
just reasonable that we stick to only parts of the map.
I like you, but you need to stop foisting your views on the community just because you have good graphical design skills to embellish your points. You can't just make these gigaposts in every thread and expect people to concur.
For one thing, that activity sheet is completely, utterly wrong. Second part is "too many solars (para)" is a terrible argument as its solars that make systems interesting and large amounts of them do not harm gameplay.
New York is a crap, boring system. It's absolute crap. Only two field types and three planetary solars. It's only because it's right in the middle of everything anybody gives it the bloody time of day.
As for Rheinland, the large size of the house is helpful because it makes piracy more competetive. System size in systems with lanes is fairly irrelevant anyhow and gives police more to do, as unlawfuls are incentivised to use trade lanes. Frankfurt is a great system because it has one lane - everybody - has to go down, which creates a natural interaction point. It balances that huge scale by having easy-to-get-to Jump Holes for unlawfuls into NB and Dresden and Bremen (Unioners), and Sigmas, Munich (Bundschuh).
Ill De France is the most beautiful, most well thought out system in the mod. Gallia had some of its most beautiful systems removed because a bunch of people who don't even play in the house demanded their removal and it still did nothing for Gallic activity. Berry was damn beautiful, as was Anjou, as was Maine, which retconned a lot of people's RP and threw the entire concept of the first gallic war out of the window.
Look, people have to agree we're never going to concur about this stuff, and just bloody log in instead of demotivating each other with this crap.
What about those of us who just want to play in Gallia? I just want to play in Gallia.
Please stop crying about my point of view. You're free to disagree, but not more.
I'm not demotivating. I call out stuff that people are noticing for months and years. If Gallia is so beautiful, why are people not there? because nobody is there, and because travelling through certain systems is a pain in the butt. Travelling TO Gallia is a pain in the butt. From New York to Ile de France, it is at least nine systems to move through. Why the hell would you make a starting point there? It looks nothing like vanilla. The starspheres are a mix of "We have nothing better right now" and "One of everything". And then the distances.
NY - NB = 4 systems
NY - NL = 5 systems
NY - NT = 4 systems
NY - Delta = 8 systems
NL - NT = 5 systems
NL - NB = 5 systems
NL - Delta = 7 systems
NT - Delta = 6 systems
It's all central, all well connected. Unlike Gallia.
IDF - NL = 7 systems
IDF - NT = 5 systems
IDF - NY = 9 systems
IDF - NB = 9 systems
IDF - Delta = 8 systems
Most systems are around 5 minutes of flight at max. So when people see there is activity somewhere outside Gallia, do you really think they fly up to nine systems to reach it, wasting more than half an hour while getting TL disruptions and stuff? Gallia is a nice to have, but nothing more. And it definitely isn't finished, balanced or reviewed. Otherwise we would have people there. You can yell at me as much as you want regarding the activity chart, but it is accurate and you know it very well. The activity is mostly in the lower half of the map and mostly in the lower left quarter, while Omicron Delta is a good magnet because of its layout and connections. And the most beautiful view you can have on a sun.
Gallia is pretty contradicting and doesn't fit vanilla at all. They tried to be realistic in terms of planetary systems but completely effed up the nebulae and starspheres, and it is horribly big. Gallia would definitely profit from systems behind Gallia, as right now it is a deadend. Generally, when you create maps, you have a central, well visited point where people can start and interact and find each other, and the more you move away from the central point, the more rough areas get. The more exotic they become. Gallia should be an exotic place, not a house. It tries to be both of it and fails at it. That is why people demand unknown wild deep Omicrons and blind jump systems instead of moving to Gallia. It's too much as if it could have anything interesting and significant.
Sorry to disappoint you Sici but moving the starting system to Cortez was not my idea, as you may have gathered from my posts I'm more in favour of a nexus system.
However I can see Teerin's logic behind using Curacao as a starting world, after all it is the only planet within the borderworlds that is home to a generally neutral company with no territorial claims. It rests on that interesting edge of somewhat safe but not quite as it is easily accessable to Rogues, Hackers, Outcasts, Gaians and Corsairs whilst being protected by Liberty, Bretonia, OS&C and Crayter.
In addition, as a borderworld it sits on a trade route and the main go-through for Bretonia-Liberty traffic so theres plenty of chances for new players to meet veterans as they go about their business. Throw in a few things to explore or mine and you're golden.
If that doesn't convince you then simply ask yourself, what could OSC possibly gain by having people undock from one of our planets?