No action perpetrated by the LSF had any direct intention to incite distaste or upheaval of the faction in any way. LSF was clearly carrying out the law in their best interpretation of it. However, any diplomacy regarding the faction will be held as an inRP interaction. What LSF wishes to do in their best interests is up to them based on the events carried out by CR and the LSF in conjunction. It should also be noted that LSF is independent of the Liberty Navy, and acts in the same capacity. If there is a problem with Liberty law, you should have no issues negotiating with Liberty Government to amend those laws.
Before the accusation of ooRP bias, you should deeply consider how the situation was approached. CR was given 7 opportunities to pay and leave without a painful altercation, and there was certainly opportunity for negotiation of the fine. This was a 30 minute interaction, and the opportunity for action was offered and refused. 4 million is so insignificant to most people's wallets, and an arrangement to negotiate the fine could have also been arranged. Should the fine had been found to be drawn in error, you would have been refunded. By refusing to comply you forfeited your right to dispute it, and your vessels in the process.
The law has a lot of room for interpretation, and the flexibility to be altered to obtain an agreement where you're permitted with certain class vessels, but this change has not yet been observed, so assume the law will be carried out how it is written.
Clause 2: Free Trade is to be fully open between Liberty, Bretonia, and the Crayter Republic. Any act considered to represent an Obstruction to Free Trade shall be considered a criminal offense in the eyes of Liberty and Bretonia. Obstruction to Free Trade shall carry an attached fine of two hundred thousand credits per offense, collectable by any lawful agent of the Liberty, Bretonia, or Crayter Republic Government, payable to the government of each nation.
It seems to me that this is the main stickling point. What LSF did was technically not wrong, though in bad taste.
It's the decision of the Republic of Liberty which is an obvious violation of the Treaty of Curacao that has gotten people upset.
If CR as a whole, including clearly civilian vessels designated as such, are effectively banned from Liberty, that openly goes against "Free Trade is to be fully open between Liberty, Bretonia, and the Crayter Republic."
Libgov should consider either clarifying who they consider "foreign nonallied military", or acknowledge that they are scrapping the treaty.
Karst is right actually, Libgov need to do an official statement about the situation otherwise there will be an escalation of useless ooRP violence in the thread. I suggest that mod close the thread for now until libgov come up with status clarification of CR within liberty. From there both party will be fixed on the course of the events
(09-19-2018, 06:59 PM)Aristaan Wrote: No action perpetrated by the LSF had any direct intention to incite distaste or upheaval of the faction in any way.
Everything points to the contrary.
(09-19-2018, 06:59 PM)Aristaan Wrote: LSF was clearly carrying out the law in their best interpretation of it. However, any diplomacy regarding the faction will be held as an inRP interaction. What LSF wishes to do in their best interests is up to them based on the events carried out by CR and the LSF in conjunction. It should also be noted that LSF is independent of the Liberty Navy, and acts in the same capacity. If there is a problem with Liberty law, you should have no issues negotiating with Liberty Government to amend those laws.
I think we've made it abundantly clear that we are far beyond the point where we expect realistic, reasonable, and unbiased RP from them, after multiple attempts.
(09-19-2018, 06:59 PM)Aristaan Wrote: Before the accusation of ooRP bias, you should deeply consider how the situation was approached. CR was given 7 opportunities to pay and leave without a painful altercation, and there was certainly opportunity for negotiation of the fine. This was a 30 minute interaction, and the opportunity for action was offered and refused. 4 million is so insignificant to most people's wallets, and an arrangement to negotiate the fine could have also been arranged. Should the fine had been found to be drawn in error, you would have been refunded. By refusing to comply you forfeited your right to dispute it, and your vessels in the process.
Yes, we offered the choice of 4 mil or die, and they talked a long time without making sense or backing down. Is that supposed to be a justification? They're not an unlawful faction or an enemy house, but law enforcement of a house that should be friendly and respect its own laws. We have asked for compensation IRP for the previous incidents, in case you haven't noticed, but they were ignored or refused without justification. I have asked to be escorted, and the very same guys who said I have to have an escort refused to escort me, justification "because". You know perfectly well that paying 4 million and being forbidden to pass through a house unless an official faction, which is hardly every online, agrees to escort you (and then they say "nahh" but refuse to let you pass anyway) is effectively a "stay out" order. But you pretend to be completely oblivious to this and pretend we're being treated fairly.
(09-19-2018, 06:59 PM)Aristaan Wrote: The law has a lot of room for interpretation, and the flexibility to be altered to obtain an agreement where you're permitted with certain class vessels, but this change has not yet been observed, so assume the law will be carried out how it is written.
And the law was the same for years upon years, and nothing like this happened until now, when a few players who refuse to say who they are (one of them, and LPI, has been identified as someone who was sanctioned for trolling CR before), choose to "interpret it differently". And you come here pretending to be entirely oblivious to all of this, but to have the fullest confidence in the players you refuse to name.
No one knew that it was you Karlotta, no one cared who it was behind the ship. So stop converting this inRP issue into ooRP. Everything was dealt inRP according to the Liberty Law.
Basically Karlotta summed it up nicely. When an official faction rolls in the mud by refusing to escort and then demanding to leave liberty is basically giving a low blow. Liberty practically bans CR from its house. Do you really want another enemy? Because thats how you get another distasteful, disappointed faction that gonna shoot you. Out of some bullshit oorp drama that shouldnt happen at all. It was not a problem till recent, it is not a problem for Council or GMG or IMG. Yet it is somehow a problem when it comes to CR.
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Why did CR merge IFFs so Deimoi use the same IFF as Atlases? There’s plenty of guard IFFs pending removal at devs’ leisure so 2 IFFs for CR couldn’t have been a problem.
Multiples IFFs for official factions break the rules. I kind of wish the Staff would just mellow out about that and allow it, since it could lead to a lot of interesting RP opportunities.
Unofficial factions can have two IFFs but official factions can't. It's whack.