Bomber Scattergun rant

[Saronsen]

Would I prefer to see them at 400 range for anti cap purposes, yes.

literally just use scorchers for high damage, energy efficient, short range cap murder, scatterguns are redundant if they get their range back

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[Shiki]

If you are going to fight snubs 24/7 then you should use a fighter, not a bomber.

I never said that I am going to fight snubs 24/7. Can you please putting words into my mouth and then win the argument with yourself.

IDK what you argument line even is. RHA also killed RM battleships and cruisers in VHFs in recent balance patches too. VHFs are relevant anti-cap ship now. Because if RHA had the same number of Jorms that it had bombers in that fight, it would have just ended up faster.

Also sorry, I am glad that you are not involved with Templar overbuff.

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[Karlotta]

RHA also killed RM battleships and cruisers in VHFs in recent balance patches too. VHFs are relevant anti-cap ship now.

What recent balance changes were made to make vhfs stronger against caps?

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[Shiki]

RHA also killed RM battleships and cruisers in VHFs in recent balance patches too. VHFs are relevant anti-cap ship now.

What recent balance changes were made to make vhfs stronger against caps?

Just to point out that it happened in current meta. Point was is to show that examples involving RHA are rather not reliable in balance arguments due to specifics of RHA playerbase skill compared to their RM counterpart.

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[Binski]

More radical suggestions:

Just my opinion,

but I no longer understand why we can't just mount fighter weapons on bombers, and let them go back to the main snub. People would fly them for both anti-cap but also the potential to fight anti-bomber, and fighters would become more strictly about interception or anti-bomber. I love fighters but we don't actually need all these classes.

Dogfighting in bombers is slower paced and more reasonable, but the guns suck for it. Basically, make bombers fighter-bombers and see what happens. I already only fly a havoc with chainguns and rockets. Let me put maxims on it instead!

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[Hubjump]

VHFs are relevant anti-cap ship now.

Don't they literally lack the firepower to sustain this over getting shot by the rest of the caps?

How to increase hit consistency when flying caps shooting at snubs:
Strafe chaotically to mess with how your solaris/secondary shots are fired and they'll very often counteract the strafing of a snub. Whilst a snub is turning to dodge they can't fire at you.
More people should know and do this when piloting a ship bigger than a cruiser. Combine this with flaks and well... You've got a great level of snub deterrence now. Micro between this and flaking/evading torpedoes.

Edit: Also dedicate a group as secondary/solaris chain fire for half the guns. Preferably opposites from each side. So like front left bottom fires the same as front right top gun. It creates a good cone to just keep up hitting the enemy for any meaningful amount of damage over conventional keyboard slash spamming of the numbers.

[Durandal]

Re: Scatters - they're fine in duels, and that's what they are meant to be. A defensive weapon for bombers when a bomber is forced to duel a fighter.

Now, this post I thought was interesting and actually worth addressing.

Newbies being instakilled by caps is fine, but by bombers it isn't. Because unbiased.

I actually agree with you, and were this actually Durandalancer 24/7 as some people make it out to be, fighter shields would be almost impermeable to all heavy and medium anticap weaponry.

But this isn't my own personal playground, and if it were, we'd have people saying the very same thing you did here,

I mean you can call your own opinion unbiased while killing off an entire ship class.

Except about caps.

[Baphomet]

Greetings again

Durandal, i appreciate your testing i really do, but the majority of players are not like you.
I believe everyone here had something to say, and all the facts and arguments have been stated.
Everyone makes an opinion based on his own personal experiance with scatterguns, as it should be.

So with no more debating in mind i have a suggestion. Lets move on to a final stage and vote on this, because its clearly shown there is much diffrence in opinions, but the subject is important.

So i suggest this: Make three possible answers, you tic one of them that answers the following questions( it will rhyme ironically)

What is to be done with a scattergun?

a) remove
b) rebalance
c) leave as it is

Give it a month for the people to vote, and see what the community really wants
The most fair and logical step

Thank you all

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[The_Godslayer]

Newbies being instakilled by caps is fine, but by bombers it isn't. Because unbiased.

I actually agree with you, and were this actually Durandalancer 24/7 as some people make it out to be, fighter shields would be almost impermeable to all heavy and medium anticap weaponry.

But this isn't my own personal playground, and if it were, we'd have people saying the very same thing you did here,

I'm pretty sure that the whole point of this being such a big universe and having such things as capitol ships and all and not just fighters like vanilla, is that you need a strategy for these battles. If there's a capitol ship, and you're in a fighter, you're not expected to 1v1 the capship. And if you do in fact 1v1 the capship as a snub, you deserve the humiliating death you get. Big deal. If you're in a bomber, and you want to 1v1 a LF, you need to hit 2 solid shots immediately, 1 for the shield and 1 for the hull. Otherwise, you're gonna be early turned and melted the whole time. And you're gonna hella deserve it. If there's a capspam outside your base, bring caps and bombers. Lots of bombers is too many targets to hit, and they all do cap-sized damage. If they are bringing LFs to fight your bombers, bring your own VHFs. This isn't about 1v1's until some 2 people make it about a 1v1. This is like Rock Paper Scissors. Everything has a counter. Just because it isn't right in front of you doesn't make it not exist. The question everyone here is asking is between themselves and what they want to do. Not between newbies in LFs and veterans in caps. If you really want to argue for the noobs that much, fix the goddamn economy so we can buy caps. Because it wasn't fun at all trying to work up enough money to buy a cap in this here piratelancer, where we couldn't switch systems without getting hunted down by the locals and robbed, especially when we're not PvP gods and able to complete a bunch of bounties.

As for the scattergun, it was fine how it was before. I wasn't hurt, nor was I hurting with it.

[Durandal]

Give it a month for the people to vote, and see what the community really wants
The most fair and logical step

The weapon is balanced. I will not be holding a vote to rebalance a weapon that is balanced. As before, you are invited to join me in Connecticut for a demonstration.