(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: I dare the Devs to trial my changes and see what happens. You have nothing, but the subconscious fear you reveal you have by even commenting.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: Dear God almighty.
Ah, yes, allowing already silent traders to 1) Farm their money with no time constraint and 2) avoid all forms of consequences for both not caring about RP and for basic rule of nature like taking a paper thin transport loaded with valuables through deep space. As if the infinite capspam from the money farmers wasn't bad enough, lets just completely throw out the entire economy as it is. OR, nerf money rates to the point where the ONLY way to make a profit is to jumptrade. Very nice. A huge burst of activity, followed by the permanent death of all forms of trading as the player economy becomes saturated to the points of hundreds of billions of credits. Completely disregarding the server hardware and software impact that PoB spam has, the very first issue will be people spamming 5 or 10 weapon platforms on top of every sellpoint in order to play Starcraft in a spacesim. The same goes for your faction challenge thing. You're just playing a real-time-strategy at that point, and at that point get off of freelancer and go play Starcraft or Age of Empires or literally anything else. Second, and more importantly, and something you still refuse to address, is that your proposed system only benefits people who have no life, and have 150 hours per week to throw at this game. The only people who would have a modicum of a chance would be people who live in the timezone of whatever dominant friend group of no-lifers there is. Anyone not living in your own country will have no way to do anything but ***** off the server permanently as their faction gets deleted because they have school, a job, a sleep schedule, and a life. You refused to address this in the faction challenge thread, and I'm sure you'll do it again, because you know I have you cornered on that one. You just want a way for you and your little circle of friends to win at everything because you don't have anything worthwhile to do.
Use some imagination man. First of all, I've mastered almost every RTS I ever played. So yeah I do have a pretty good grasp on the concept of 'concurrent activity', which means allowing for multiple things to go on at any given time.Some of you have nothing but fearful naysaying, and all it tells me is that you are still doing that thing of clining to the usual way of thinking. Yet why is it that keeping things the same is supposed to work in brining up population? You only see worst case scenarios, and over exaggerate the impact. The point will be to ramp things up a bit, but that also creates real opportunity, which we lack, and that is what really contributes to the stagnation of being here for so long. How long have you been here anyways? I don't think you have the economy down that well just yet. The systems I've proposed are totally logical for a place like this.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: Not only does this ignore what it would do to the economy, you also ignore the fact that people have setups varying from yours. Guess what? Anyone with multiple monitors and enough patience to learn dual-inputs suddenly owns every capship fight. Now someone can fly a BCR and a BS and you can do nothing to stop them because you're CDd and a cerbdread is cruising on you. Now PvP is broken, and people are leaving the server even more. Now doesn't that seem counter productive? Do you even care?
And that's completely overlooking the curb-stomp this would deliver to the economy, not to mention the surge of RPless powertraders who now don't even have to ask for help to openly display how little they care about the universe that's been built here.
No offense bud but anyone can go test it, run 2 single player instances and just try to fly two caps at the same time. Maybe if you're ambidextrous, and really really practiced, and even then I'd bet one ship goes down extremely fast. No in reality, you can't fly two ships with that much detail at the same time. Its really only practical to drag a ship behind you in formation like a transport. You could take out two caps but one is going down pretty much without a fight. You fight with one, they notice, switch to the other. You switch, they switch. I suppose worst case they get double the bounty and kills, if you insist. Economy wise, this will make it easier on people, and when they do get online, some will be doubling up. Again, you can get double the pirate booty there. Its time to take some chances again, otherwise everyone succeeds in preventing changes that might effect them while strangling the place for everyone else, and anyone whoever may come here. yes I care, that's why I'm putting some serious thought into this. Are you?
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: First and foremost, ever since this post went unanswered, the roleplay consequences while cloaked thing only applies to House Military, Police, and Intelligence factions. Why? Because Houses have a lot more roleplay strength than any other group. This rule is made to prevent some intel from parking a cloaked fighter 10K from Malta, waiting for a Junker to fly by, then yeeting away and making a sirius wide comm, permanently removing Junkers from all houses, then dropping all their RP assets on top of every Junker base and deleting them from the mod. Now, either this is exactly what you want, and you're just looking for cheep excuses to make your faction win, and every other faction lose because you have the mentality of a 4 year old, OR you did exactly zero research into your opinion or WHY the rules are the way they are, and you just don't care enough about others to put the effort in.
Also *consequences
I have no faction at the moment and am mostly flying under the Junker ID. Basically, if LSF wants to go park a cloaking transport near Malta, they can. They can get all that juicy info, but really it gives them no power to do anything inrp. They have no jurisdiction there, you can't enforce Liberty laws in Omicron Alpha, certainly not in retrospect. LSF could try to do this uncloaked and be likely to succeed a great deal. Time to deal, we have cloaks, you can see whats going on while using them, it should go without question you can use the data you collect while cloaked. If you want to enforce right then and there, fine. If not, file a charge. Really this is most imporant for factions to be able to scout each other's territory cloaked, observe suppliers, etc, and actually find out what's going on for once. If anyone should be able to do that without question, its House Intel ID's, police and navies. And of course, if we could get the OF challenge system, it would make even more sense, since we'll be having regular sieges, there will be something actually going on for people to want to observe while cloaked, or wait to stage a surprise attack/counter attack (with RP of course).
There's no reason to limit it, they just said it lets people avoid interaction. Forcing interaction artificially is bad too, it kills the immersion for arcadeness. I mean, we limited spying because some people didn't want to be spied upon. It should have been accepted it could happen, its a 'dangerous' space world, its not that far fetched for players to play along with the need to be discreet, and that sometimes you'll get caught. Unless you smuggle cloaked. That's also an option. Its not perfect but if you need to evade authorities to supply a base, it helps you avoid being followed at all, etc. We should be playing a game where we have situations where it could matter, and let players sort it out!
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: So just completely ignore that other factions would build things differently. Just throw the little bit of necessary realism for the fiction to even feel worth it out the window. Has no one ever told you "only reality is stranger than fiction"? Do you know the fundamentals for worldbuilding? For any good fictional world to work, it must feel possible, and then you add a few exceptions. A good world would have people saying "If we had faster than light travel, and this alien tech that optimizes mass-to-energy conversion, this world could work". The more you throw out, the further it gets from reality, the worse the story gets, the less involved people can get in it, and ultimately you'll just kill the community, which was exactly the point you said you were trying to make. A Lane Hacker gun will have different wiring than a Kusari gun, and unless Lane Hackers know how to make an adapter for the Kusari gun, they wouldn't be able to use it. This is a logical conclusion for technological advancements that spent nearly the first 100 years of their existence (until 96 A.S.) COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT of each other. Another important point is that groups capable of developing their own tech would want severely to not let others access it. That's why patents exist in real life. Throwing out the realism of the world will just throw the story into the trash, which will in turn throw the RP into the trash, which will inevitably kill the community you say you're trying to save.
Yes actually I do know how to world build. Every RTS allows for the ability to balance a scenario to build and maintain a world, instead of just playing it through from start to end. I actually do make my own custom maps for Age of Empires 1&2, Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds (AOE2 mod), Starcraft, Star Trek: Armada 2 and Rise of Nations. For Star Trek: Armada 2 I only bothered making one giant map world that is a huge map, yet tiny microcosm of the Star Trek world. I designed it so that you can build a balance and simply have an open world, if you play it right. Watch the video I posted of it, I have plenty. So yes I do know how to set up worlds so that they basically self run/self perpetuate. I could have this place fully automated in a month, it would be just processing requests or making changes on a list every few days of moves submitted by players.
I didn't make the map but I made the working city! Come to my city! I always pay better than Rome! Very low taxes!
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: I'm 90% sure that Widow's already made a post on this, but in the event that she didn't, let me spell it out for you: Staff Structure Optimization is already happening. Pay attention. Stop running your mouth. As for player driven changes, you're currently the shining example of why that cannot and will not happen.
Well I'm glad to hear and I never assumed nothing was happening at all, but it doesn't always happen fast enough to effect our options in-game. I really don't get how my desire to bring some open order to the place is so scary.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: Ah yes, let the no-lifers instantly delete every faction they don't like. As has been clarified in that thread: No. Just stop.
Also, curb your self-importance. "Implement my thing because everything I say is right, and will save Discovery Freelancer" is a great way to piss everyone off and guarantee that no one will listen to you. Sit down, be humble. You're not the Messiah, you're not some blessed individual who's intellect is above all, and just like everyone else to attempt to claim that title, you're not the Jesus of the poor people. Go read through your own thread and actually address the problems with something that doesn't amount to overly-verbose "it won't because I say it won't", because the number of holes in this theory alone could grate wheels of parmesan in one pass.
Yeah well you're no God slayer mister humble. The hostile attitudes only prove one thing to me, that I'm right and its just irrational fear that holds a lot back here. I've been playing here since mid 2012, and I've seen a lot of things here. I don't expect change overnight but it would be nice if someone here could pierce the veil and stimulate some much needed change.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: Well, from what I read in your NEMP thread, it became very clear that you don't PvP with snubs. However, reading this has also convinced me that you clearly don't PvP with caps either, and I hope for your continued semblance of acumen you don't mean this to enable serious PvP with 5kers. Do you even PvP? Do you even care about PvP? Do you realize that there's other players in this game other than your tiny circle of friends, and that they have thoughts as well? Do you know how long Capitol Ship PvP has been tweaked and rebalanced? Do you know how long Battleships have gone without CDs, and how long no one has ever felt the need to change this in any way, shape, or form? Please actually put effort into the thoughts that form these paragraphs. For the sake of other people's time, question the thoughts that go through your mind once or twice before throwing them into the forums.
Oh I'm sure plenty have felt the need to change it but were afraid to say anything. Check out my youtube channel, I can't post anymore videos in this post but even click on the Exploits of Captain Antares vid in my signature and you'll see I was pvp'ing here in my sacred Pelican way back in the day. I pvp'd with snubs mostly during the war, I pefer bombers, and I like caps but RP wise I didn't want to do a capship captain, I have had caps in the past though. But to me, if we put a system in effect I'd have a reason to go make like 6 caps right off the bat probably and deck them out well. The industry of defending station's in sieges from unlawfuls would be upon us. And the battle to control the scidata industry. That sounds bad how? So, I would get into capship pvp in a heartbeat if there was a REAL reason to get involved and invest in that stuff more. It'll be fine! Ye of little faith godslayer.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: I've already gone over what making Jump Drives necessary for the economy would do. Also, any radical map changes would be better left in any hands but yours. To be fully honest, I read "Make Gallia a mini server that can only be accessed by jump drive" and completely lost all interest in finishing reading this piece. No doubt I would have been even more disappointed if I had.
People have already been suggesting to drastically cut systems and slim routes to funnel activity, just to get any interactions. Technically we'd have 3 smaller areas that would allow for just that, and a player base to provide the connections (and perhaps staff) for those seeking jumps between regions. This is not 'integral' in my eyes either, but its an option. I think its kind of epic. But yes this is why I put it in the long term category, it would take some work. And if player population were brought up well it would not be as necessary.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: If you're actually proposing to code this, then go ahead and present it. Specifically the part where PoB platforms can still be tied to the base without issues, including the IFF bits, and not screw the base's HP at the same time. There's a reason why they're invincible. Also, the old bug with weapon platform abuse that got people permabanned would come back in full swing, so you'd have to engineer a fix for that too. Enjoy coding that.
Just set the respawn of the WP to not happen without a minimum of 100 units of the commodity Armaments or Munitions per defmod, and to consume 100 units each respawn. Nothing else changes. And this is for POB's, not mortal NPC bases. Those wouldn't have WP's, but could be additionally secured by POB weapons platforms. Even if a Core 4 Base were built, with many WP's, technically an attacking side would still have the chance to destroy WP's until the ammo ran out, and secure an easier way to expose a base they want to capture, or simply make taking out the POB easier after a certain point (especially if they can block supply, just like shield fuel). So maybe changes to WP stats would best follow that. Again, it may take time but would be worth it.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: Roleplay Canonization Requests and Faction Canonization Requests exist. Maybe find a respectable way to make JDs canon again. Ever since a huge price was added to RCRs, I've seen most people decide to just cease anything to do with them, even after the price was reduced a bit. I don't know if this is fully the case, because I don't have administration privileges, so maybe people do make canonization requests, but from what I can gather from interpersonal communication, people collectively stopped caring what was canon, because they could step back on all mistakes made because they aren't canon. They could do whatever they wanted, and not have consequences because it didn't actually happen. Once again, do your research before you run off at the mouth, and take a moment to consider the possibility that you might just be objectively incorrect.
You're making my arguments for me. So the RCR system sucks and no one cared anymore, and how have I disagreed? Long story short, my OF challenge system is its own RCR but stimulates far more activity, and allow for more fluid change. With the prices of sieges, and they could simply be raised, people won't just be dropping 3000 units of scidata every week to siege planets or jump gates. But when they do, it will be the result of gameplay and RP, not just forum RP and possible a supply list. That can all still be in there, I just don't see why not use that same desire to add some life back into factions, make them enticing even to a player like myself. I can only really function in a faction if there's plenty to keep me busy.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: Don't know if anyone has told you, but there is a very specific reason as to why this doesn't happen, and it's called Microsoft's Legal Team. If you want to go head to head with Bill Gates over a 2002 space sim, go ahead. See how far you get. I'll be laughing at you from the sidelines. Or, and this is more likely, you didn't read the EULA when you got your first copy of Freelancer, and don't know what a game modification of this level actually entails. There really isn't more to say on this. To put it shortly, when you buy this game, you don't own the game. You own a license to play the game. Huge difference.
Again, I think at this point its safe to assume the opposite is true. Microsoft, and Bill Gates, don't care if we try to get the player population up at Discovery Freelancer. At this point its likely safe to promote the mod a bit. I don't mean take out billboards or ads in magazines.
(03-09-2021, 04:29 AM)The_Godslayer Wrote: And last but not least, "You shouldn't be allowed to not like what I say", followed by "making my word into law will be the salvation of everyone", and to cap it all off "I am altruistic and definitely in it for the good of everyone". I'm perfectly down to overlook the "disagreeing is bad" ideal, most people here have it. I'm even down to turn a blind eye to the delusions of grandeur, I myself throw those around. However, I can't just ignore the blatant lie that you surmised this joke with. I've made the mistake of not only associating with, but even trusting people who run with the "I am the Buddha of Disco", and I'm not going to make it again. Curb your ego, pay attention to what's actually happening, not just your miniscule worldview, and put research into your arguments. Yeah, I am famous for being a troll, but at this point you're just becoming a meme.
And the next time you have an uninformed essay to post about how you think you've been sent by God to save us all, post it in flood. Stop wasting people's time.
Oh and you're the godslayer out to slay the evil oppressive God, and will bring us all real enlightenment eh? I don't think so. You seem a little easily emanciated. I have my arguments well formed and thought out, and yes I know that every time I drop one of these threads I'm basically strapping on the armor, grabbing the sword and the staff, and doing a dive into the heart of Goblintown. And yes I will duke it out in the depths if need be. What I see is a fear that someone else might have some answers no one else thought of. I think its a great swath of the community that needs to set aside ego for the benefit of the server's future. So, trolls, goblins, same diff.
(03-09-2021, 09:20 AM)Binski Wrote: Use some imagination man. First of all, I've mastered almost every RTS I ever played. So yeah I do have a pretty good grasp on the concept of 'concurrent activity', which means allowing for multiple things to go on at any given time.Some of you have nothing but fearful naysaying, and all it tells me is that you are still doing that thing of clining to the usual way of thinking. Yet why is it that keeping things the same is supposed to work in brining up population? You only see worst case scenarios, and over exaggerate the impact. The point will be to ramp things up a bit, but that also creates real opportunity, which we lack, and that is what really contributes to the stagnation of being here for so long. How long have you been here anyways? I don't think you have the economy down that well just yet. The systems I've proposed are totally logical for a place like this.
Yes actually I do know how to world build. Every RTS allows for the ability to balance a scenario to build and maintain a world, instead of just playing it through from start to end. I actually do make my own custom maps for Age of Empires 1&2, Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds (AOE2 mod), Starcraft, Star Trek: Armada 2 and Rise of Nations. For Star Trek: Armada 2 I only bothered making one giant map world that is a huge map, yet tiny microcosm of the Star Trek world. I designed it so that you can build a balance and simply have an open world, if you play it right. Watch the video I posted of it, I have plenty. So yes I do know how to set up worlds so that they basically self run/self perpetuate. I could have this place fully automated in a month, it would be just processing requests or making changes on a list every few days of moves submitted by players.
See I know you probably can't tell the difference between those games and discovery freelancer which is a mod for a 2003 arcade shooter which most of the community still plays because they want to play said 2003 arcade space shooter but here I'll try it anyway Freelancer isn't an RTS so please stop bringing up RTS games which have zero relevance.
(03-09-2021, 09:20 AM)Binski Wrote: Oh I'm sure plenty have felt the need to change it but were afraid to say anything. Check out my youtube channel, I can't post anymore videos in this post but even click on the Exploits of Captain Antares vid in my signature and you'll see I was pvp'ing here in my sacred Pelican way back in the day. I pvp'd with snubs mostly during the war, I pefer bombers, and I like caps but RP wise I didn't want to do a capship captain, I have had caps in the past though. But to me, if we put a system in effect I'd have a reason to go make like 6 caps right off the bat probably and deck them out well. The industry of defending station's in sieges from unlawfuls would be upon us. And the battle to control the scidata industry. That sounds bad how? So, I would get into capship pvp in a heartbeat if there was a REAL reason to get involved and invest in that stuff more. It'll be fine! Ye of little faith godslayer.
Funny cause what I remember you doing during in the war and shortly after in your little campaign against the Enclave was running away when you failed to pirate transports and instead just shooting NPCs and making forum posts saying you "Dealt a great blow against the Gallics" and now you want more of the gameplay literally the entire server agrees is the worst kind? lmao nice.
If you are so adamant about the positivity of your changes suggested and about your being right, why don't you organise and start your own Discovery server? There used to be multiple servers and I guess, it is not prohibited. Surely, if your suggestions are so cool people will notice that and join your server while those who don't will enjoy the freedom to choose the routine gameplay they are used to.
If you can automate all of the processes on this server, why haven't you done so yet, submitted your work, and become the next codemonkey to replace Kazinsal and all the others who've delved into the agonizing freelancer/FLHook code?
Or is your work so sacred that we have to bow down to you first before you prove your claims?
Shrugging off people's criticisms and arguements as trolls doesn't make you seem superior and intelligent, it just makes you come off insipid. Though all of your grandiose claims and attacks/insults towards others does FAR worse.
Show us what you can do on FLHook/your own server, instead of being the armchair general with no actual capability besides banal walls of text.
And I'm actually insulted you called Galactic Battlegrounds a "mod" of AoE without understanding it's its own separate game, just on the same engine. Goes to show.
(03-09-2021, 01:48 PM)Saronsen Wrote: If you can automate all of the processes on this server, why haven't you done so yet, submitted your work, and become the next codemonkey to replace Kazinsal and all the others who've delved into the agonizing freelancer/FLHook code?
Or is your work so sacred that we have to bow down to you first before you prove your claims?
Shrugging off people's criticisms and arguements as trolls doesn't make you seem superior and intelligent, it just makes you come off insipid. Though all of your grandiose claims and attacks/insults towards others does FAR worse.
Show us what you can do on FLHook/your own server, instead of being the armchair general with no actual capability besides banal walls of text.
I 120% agree with Saronsen
Why not 100%?:
(03-08-2021, 09:48 PM)Piombo65 Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Cut the ship/tech/ID compat system almost entirely - Allow for a lot more weapons and ship/ID combos to spice things up for a while, let people try some new things, and yeah, let the RP consequences play out. So there will be a great deal of temptation to use a lot of illegal 'lucrative' weapons and ships, which will all work fine, but be a great cause for law enforcement woes and hurt pride of such factions for some time to come. Not to mention, has anyone in the last 10 years tried running the server without that plugin even running to see if it makes a difference on performance?
Agreed. Exceptions are Military/Police/Intelligence IDs that should use their own equipment. The rest if it's in the market, it can be bought even by civilians unless RP laws. I remember at .85 that you had to buy a Capital ship License to buy and use caps.
This suggestion is interesting in my opinion though
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Have a new drive to advertise the mod - This one is the big one. Not only should we see from the staff side of things an active drive to promote the mod, staff should give the OK for players to go on the recruiting drive as well. If players know its ok to go to another community or forum to drop a link to the mod and mention we need players, everyone here could start going to work on making little drops here and there.
And this thing above has a point in terms of... server should be most friendly to newcomers, so the fresh blood would stick better to become a permanent crew.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: - Allow JD4's to jump transports - There were whole companies that had to cease to exist when they cut this. As far as I'm concerned, with the population we have on average the argument jump convoys were cutting into the flow of trade didn't hold up with me. There are undoubtedly ways to offset any potential negative impact that doesn't involve removing the ability completely. This also will pay off if we implement some long term changes around use of POB's and a faction 'challenge system'. I see people arguing that it takes too long to get around to find action, or that its too difficult to do this or that (if we got more complex here), but that can all be solved by using what we already have. We should not be afraid to let people branch out, build secret bases, form companies to offer special supply services, etc. (On the long term, a JD countermeasure could be devised, or a way to detect ships charging for a jump to help those hunting them, etc).
Hard thing to make good from point of economy thing. I am wishing for jump trading as well, but I can't think of a good way to make it.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: - Allow [limited] Multiboxing - This is a stopgap measure in a way, since population is not what it was in 2012 when I first hit this place, we really don't have much to lose anymore. 'Limited' means within reason even still, we could set a limit of 2 ships per players. Especially for the purposes of using Docking Modules, players could use a larger ship as a base ship for their own snub or mining freighter, as well as for others. You could fill your own transport, etc. Do pirates really mind coming across 2 ships in an ore field with only one pilot between them? Its more likely you can easily claim demands for all ships. At this point in the server's life I really can't see how towing one extra ship for trade or supply will be that bad. I would say until population is brought back up significantly, we could stand to allow limited multiboxing. In my case, I always wanted to fly a carrier as a base ship that I could just leave sit in space, and a freighter or snub to launch from, go out and interact, etc. With JD's, that's even cooler since you can jump from region to region and do that. If you get attacked? Choose which ship to fly and hope for the best for the other one.
Abuses for it much more than good outcomes
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Void the oorp rules around enforcing roleplay consequences only while uncloaked - Lets face it, if you come across somebody doing something interesting while you're cloaked, you wouldn't drop your cloak to be able to count what you see. The odds may not be in your favor, you may want to keep your knowledge a secret for the time being. It would generate a lot more RP for law enforcement especially to let them go out and if they see something they can't tackle right then and there, simply file a report and send out a charge across the Neural Net like everything else The same goes for espionage, in making it unequivocally clear that if you observe other players' activities while cloaked, you can RP around the consequnces of that (EX: Observing certain individuals or organizations supplying bases in secret, which you can really only catch if you follow them cloaked). It could be a cop following a Freelancer to a hidden illegal base, or a pirate following a Freelancer to a corporate base.
Difficult thing for me to have opinion for yes or no. I was on both sides of this thing, while I was lawful and unlawful. I understand my wish for removal as lawful, and I have wish against removing it as unlawful.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Form Sub-Team to implement regular patches that facilitate player driven changes - We need the Admins/GMs/Devs to sort out who can make it happen. That is, in conjunction with my next suggestion, to make changes happen on a more regular basis to reflect player driven outcomes. Once that is done, if a new system is put in place, the most of it can be handled forum-side by anyone able to process requests, to hand it over to those who can make the desired changes (based on what players are doing under the system) and put them into effect.
Tbh, I fully trust GMs/System devs/Story devs to make changes regarding it, with no matter what they would do.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Implement OF Right to Challenge for bases/territory - In relation to this thread Official Faction Challenge System, once members of the team are sorted out (or added to fill that void) and we allow for the new right to take effect, there will be a whole new avenue available for player activity. This should give a great incentive to players to bolster existing or form new OF's with the hopes of making territorial gains. No guarantees, just a hope, that is exactly what will turn this place into a new open ended game. The system will ensure the rate of change and how much player effort is needed to do what. That can all be adjusted as needed separately. Yet just allowing the right creates a new situation that will allow for a new degree of immersion to return to the server. Factions will actually be able to form plans to expand, and in this system, go to work either accumulating SciData for investing in big moves, or building up the money to buy it from those that do deal in the commodity. This should create a regular industry for players to attempt to earn chances to make serious gains, while generating events that allow for everyone to get involved on one side or another.
I think it would end very badly
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Add CD's to all ships - This one is pretty straight forwards. It was good back in the day when Tau-23 was packed for hours a day. It barely matters anymore. Ships like the Democritus, Camara, and Salvager could all use CD's, and it would totally change each ship, basically creating new ships for people to actually get use out of. People want the option to use those ships for more than just chillin. If they could be converted for mercs or pirates, that would add some new variety to what we see out there, and just might get some people out give them a try. All sorts of new things arise from this simple change, which also requires nothing all that major.
I have gray opinion about it. Yay or Nay matters little to me. Battleships should be without CD though.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Make radical changes to the server systems layout - Allow me to be the first to make the craziest suggestion yet to the route problem... (this one is the most optional)
I think those are too crazy changes. And having harmful impact.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: Cut the server into 3 major sections. Divide the Server at 2 major points. The first would be, with what's gone on with Gallia and the Houses of Sirius, its time for some good old fashioned xenophobic 'Galliaism' to take effect, and for them to go full 'isolationist' for a while. That means sever the connections from Gallia to Sirius. Totally, no jumpholes or jumpgates. There will be restarts that start in Gallia, and basically for all 'segments' of the map, create an internal trade route. Make Gallia a mini server that can only be accessed by jump drive. I know that sounds crazy, but dividing the map up instead of twisting routes, changing connections that are years old and familiar, we create 3 small areas that will become easier to get interaction within. People will be purposely stuck trading in their area unless the get a jump to the new area and resume. For inter-segment trade, you'll need to bump up to a JD. (This will also make it easier to add new systems, which you'd probably expect to be attached on to Gallia somewhere, or out in the Omicrons).
The other places I'd cut off are then the Omegas/Omicrons from the Houses. Perhaps a surprise act of joint terrorism by the Hessians and the Order or something could sabotage all of the jump gates along the omegas/sigmas, basically turning the Taus, 4 Houses and Sigmas into a large zone, and then the Omegas/Omicrons into a large zone. Then all we need to do is make sure there are internal trade routes for each segment, and big ones for jump trading (ores).
Basically cut all the jump gates along the Omega/Omicrons line, and render the jumpholes inert, say it was the Nomads, a natural phenomena, or a potential new secret weapon, etc.
Those are too much crazy changes as well.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Add new consumable commodity for POB Weapons Platforms - In theory, if we put an OF Challenge System into effect, factions would need to look at their territory and figure out what places might wind up at risk from being sieged by their enemies. Many places already have POB's. House governments and other factions similarly could ask those with bases to build weapons platforms to add to the area's security, or perhaps lower the monthly fees for those bases willing to chip in on defense (especially for those near planets). In other places it might be prudent for navies/police to build a base to add WP's to secure an area, or contract it out to a third party.
Yet for those who would say WP's are already too hard to deal with, I suggested making them only work with a consumable commodity: Munitions or Armaments. My suggestion was to set so that each defense module would require 100 units of either commodity to respawn after being destroyed. So even a base with 6 weapons platforms, would only be able to keep them in space, if they kept ammo stores (like shield fuel). So, to replace 6 WP's, you'd need 600 units of one of those commodities. This way, an attacking force could focus on taking out the WP's of a base first, trying to deplete it of ammo to neutralize its defenses first. This would also create a new valuable practical commodity that players could trade, buy/pirate/confiscate that could be taken and still used. It having a practical value also makes it more valuable sometimes than just the credits they're worth. The ammo might be cheap but a base under siege might pay big for ammo! All around this balances POB's force projection ability, and creates a new commodity for player trade. Bring on the arms runners!
This thing is reallly bad in my opinion. Due to certain technical bugs.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -Clarify what is/can be cannon or not, and acceptable RP - Just as an example, when they removed JD's from cannon, I saw people basically acting like JD's should no longer exist in mention at all. So what's the deal? We could use a review of what's acceptable or not. As in, JD's might not be able to be used in cannon stories, but we can still RP them right? This is the type of thing I see screwing the place up a bit, it causes some confusion, and I'll bet its not the only issue where people are not on the same page. We could use some clarifying statements from the Devs on what we can still do or not, what's ok or not. Maybe a new FAQ 'ask me anything' with some Devs could be done to help with that, and everyone could submit some questions.
*Shrugs*
Go for it.
(03-08-2021, 06:52 PM)Binski Wrote: -New Community Attitude and enforcement from the staff- Everyone needs a new outlook on Discovery Freelancer. Its time to let go of all of the old ways of thinking. They served the place well for many years, but to keep going we need a bit more. We also need to ditch this 'unwritten' rules situation of pier pressure to get what you want. I have only ever seen the staff appease the very players that complain first only to use oorp means to manipulate the game in their favor. After years, it all added up. Each little press on the brake peddle has lead to this place being locked down! On top of the staff making sure players only treat each other with maturity, the entire community needs to embrace one simple principle that start to solve our problems here, and that is the embracing of FREEDOM. As in freedom of action, and more freedom of actions for players, will only ever lead to solutions being made in-game, not in discord. So yes, the answer is that now that we're down to where we are, opening things up and allowing for a lot more freedom will entice some new growth, new experience to be had here again. To the players, stop worrying about trivial things and start caring about the big picture.
Too broad description. You should be somehow more specific in which changes to make.
Summing it up:
I think this thing can be good
-Cut the ship/tech/ID compat system almost entirely
and those things are gray area for me, which can be or can not be moved, but could be given a try:
-Add CD's to all ships
-Clarify what is/can be cannon or not, and acceptable RP
-Have a new drive to advertise the mod -
(03-08-2021, 09:48 PM)Piombo65 Wrote: (not only vanilla, consider the Olympia wreck in Omega-3)
Just wanna point out that the Olympia having a Jump Drive was retconned. Want to make sure that's understood, and that Jump Drives are not canon.
...and the new excuse about get stuck IN THE MIDDLE of an asteroid field is...?
A final charge of the station acting as a literal bullet sponge. Damaged beyond repair and scuttled.
Weird move in any case.
(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: Its just not true. People were using these to supply bases more so than jump trade for profit. People ruined jump trading for the same reason the Junker Congress jump convoys were ruined, feelings of jealous and inadequacy. Its not right. No one was missing out on that much. I knew because I was a pirate going with them. I knew they were spending most of the time before the jump slowly congregating, easily attackable by those who'd been willing to try. No one was, instead it was seen as impossible, and we were punished to appease the paranoid. They ruined the server with these decisions. These pirates that think they're missing out just need to actually try. But again, I support just making the jump notice visible to anyone on the server, so they will have a few minutes heads up a ship is planning to jump, and go looking. Will it work every time? No, but eventually they'll get it. Or you watch to see where they're going to and from, next time you can be waiting, etc. There are ways, I'm tired of seeing the place kept a skeleton to keep those players happy. All it did was drive people to do less in general, they already probably weren't contributing to the pirateable population.
1) Yes it's true. And since corp convoys don't exist anymore, be sure they will everyone use the JD for individual trade avoiding any kind of interaction and doing money very safely without any risk. At that time the economy wasn't a mess and many people had to buy at least 1 capital ship with CAU VIII and cooperation was necessary even because of decent NPCs.
2) Piracy is no more because, indeed, there's no risk. You can rob traders in any way, even killing it, but he will retry and success, who cares about a loss if their banks are ALREADY FULL of BILIONS of money? Now you're trading not because of money but because of RP or PoB refilling. Trading for its main purposes is dead as piracy is dead. People should learn to lose, to make sacrifices, to accept what's against him.
(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: Yes you may have to sacrifice the normal guarantees you get from flying one ship. You get good advantages a lot but it can also drag you down. If you're flying a carrier on one side and your snub or miner on the other, and your carrier gets attacked, you can ignore your small ship to try and fight with the carrier. If your snub gets attacked? Well you must choose one, but thats the balancing factor. That's why its not so bad. If no one ever expects population to significantly climb back up, why would you bother care if people are multboxing? For it would mean this place is dead already. So yes there are ways to abuse, ways it can go wrong, but none of it matters. The advantages certainly now outweigh the disadvantages. And hey if population miraculously shot back up, this one's easy to reverse. But TBH I should always be able to fly a carrier ship and a snub, and take my chances. As long as we follow the rules, we're fine. Yes there may be circumstances we can't forsee, and that's the fun of playing with new freedoms.
...in any case, multiboxing is disadvantageous and voluntary avoided.
(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: Yeah that was a strange thing that happened with Omega-3. I'm not sure why it matters. When they needed it for plot armor, it was whipped out. Then suddenly ruled out. Personally I feel that whole situation was a disaster that went to waste. Well its fine if they are kept out of cannon I suppose, but not roleplay in general.
^ Check @Spectre response. Just have in mind many illogical things are canon. Players make Rheinland win? Liberty won. Bretonia repeately defended Leeds with Liberty help? Leeds lost. Gallia has anything at last to beat Bretonia literally destroying his capital? It kinda forgot the Iron fleet Council.
(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: Well this underscores my main point to the entire thread and the OF challenge system. This is also why things take so long, and too much oorp consideration is made in limiting activities. We need an in-game driven system so we can turn the game back into the common medium we all use to determine some story. Large scale story can always be determined that way, but most story at this point, if allowed, would be just factions attacking each other, unlawfuls attacking lawful bases or planets, etc, as well as routes in between. That system would literally allow the factions to have some open ended chances for purpose, and write many other little stories in between. In fact if there are no plans for any more large wars, the OF challenge system is exactly what we need. Its years overdue in truth!
We just need a decent number of people per every team and involving them in more frequently events. I candidated as moderator (to become admin then) but every application has been rejected so they need everyone but me I think.
(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: Ah but this is why I suggest it be an Official Faction right. And its limited to ID. So if there are two factions for the same ID, and they disagree on certain actions, I say let it be sorted out inrp. Existing factions will find if they do what they should be doing, they'll have no problems. People will want to join the faction thats doing stuff, where they might have a future growing, moving up the line.
The majority of this will all be unlawfuls attacking lawful locations to try and add them to their 'empire', or maybe they might want to give control to one of their sub entities like an unlawful corporation, etc. Why not allow for it all and see what happens? This is the exact change we need to foster new growth. Its not anarchy, we'll figure it out, just like we figured out how to play the game as it is over the last 10 years. So to me I'd rather see factions have 1 or 2 bases be designated as 'core' bases (not the Core) that are untouchable. The rest are a bonus, and technically they could lose them to other unlawfuls/quasi lawfuls, lawfuls, or be the ones adding to their faction/control.
How could people be happier with slow barely moving story progression, instead of one regularly moving along. You find out who's doing what, who's working on what surprises, by the headlines on the forum as they go. To me that sounds beautiful. And with limits, factions can only expand so far and stay that way. It will only be a matter of time before a faction that stole several bases may have them stolen back, or taken by another competitor. I'd love to preserve the mod as it is forever and not have to do any of that, but it will only die otherwise. We could be having a lot of fun with it, we just need a team who will work the gears for us!
1) Limiting the idea at OF only is not enough for the reasons I answered before. That's not OORP management issue but RP management.
2) Why not allow for it all and see what happens? Because this game wouldn't call "Discovery Freelancer" anymore, it wouldn't even call "Freelancer"! The game could suddenly rename in... "Siriusside 2"? "Siriusside arena"? where RP isn't necessary anymore because what counts now is just grinding to fight the enemy faction, seeing war everywhere, no time and space even for newcomers who suddenly spawns in a contested planet and believe me, the diplomacy RP I'd hope also to see in a similar implemented system will be as limited as you hope, everyone are blood- and power-thirsty and this is a game. Who cares about victims? Just write a number and go on! (Death of one is a tragedy. Death of many is statistic). No more RP that's not war, policy, diplomacy, no more RP that a "sandbox" like Discovery (and even ED, EVE, SC...) would offer besides the previous ones. This is a game where fight is one of the main feature, but not the only!
That's why I suggest to limit your propose, not refusing that completely.
(03-09-2021, 01:46 AM)Binski Wrote: BS having them wouldn't be necessary, but it doesn't scare me. To me, why would they not have a CD? You'd think they could mount them, and need them. They are slower moving, you do move out of a BS's range easier on most ships other than transports, so yeah, I'm ok with battleships being able to interdict transports on their own.
Let's start mainly that a BS shouldn't be played alone. As every single existent game and RL, a big warship need a fleet that can support that because alone is vulnerable by strikecrafts and bombers and their secondaries are nothing if they come with a squadron. A BS should be descripted as a "semi-mobile" command ship with big firepower but, indeed, low speed (yet they shouldn't even have shields and cruise), used in fleets and big battles to assault bases or destroy other capital ships. If you delete this concept putting them a CD it's the end. Why? Because it loses his role of "vulnerable ship if let alone". It could CD torps, CD light capital ships that could use evasive maneuvers right to evade it. Why do the other class of capital ships matter if I can use a BS with a CD (and EVEN putting anti-snub loadouts and CODENAME weapons)!?
Games survive because they are fun. As long as Discovery is fun, it won't need any saving. If Discovery is no longer fun, then turn it into something else that is not Discovery.
- Allow JD4's to jump transports - There were whole companies that had to cease to exist when they cut this. As far as I'm concerned, with the population we have on average the argument jump convoys were cutting into the flow of trade didn't hold up with me. There are undoubtedly ways to offset any potential negative impact that doesn't involve removing the ability completely. This also will pay off if we implement some long term changes around use of POB's and a faction 'challenge system'. I see people arguing that it takes too long to get around to find action, or that its too difficult to do this or that (if we got more complex here), but that can all be solved by using what we already have. We should not be afraid to let people branch out, build secret bases, form companies to offer special supply services, etc. (On the long term, a JD countermeasure could be devised, or a way to detect ships charging for a jump to help those hunting them, etc).
This can be balanced by having a jump drive have an insanely high charge up time, and broadcasting every minute that the ship is charging jump drive to the entire system, as well as perhaps making it necessary to be near a naturally occurring jump hole "To use the naturally occurring gravitational anomaly to facilitate faster than light travel."
For instance, if we get a golden ore transport in Dublin, and it requires charge up time of say, 5 minutes if going to London, but 15 minutes if going to New York, and will always spawn you on a certain location in the system (Near the star, like in E?), that might help with the ingame balance of trading.
Add the charge-up time to that, and also broadcasting your location to everyone, making you a sitting duck for every nefarious element in the system, and you pretty much have nerfed the jumpdrive into oblivion. (balance work needed with actual figures :-) )
Also, hi everyone, I dropped back after quite a while :wave:
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?), that might help with the ingame balance of trading.