|ZDF| - Zoner Defense Fleet

[Skorak]

NFZs are a roleplay thing, not a rule.

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[Xenon]

Good luck returning the No Fire Zones active again
Listen to @Doc Holliday , He got a vast experience concerning Zoners
Hopefully, you can make a difference, best of luck!

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[Kullman]

NFZs are a roleplay thing, not a rule.

Roleplay is a rule, isn't it?

If you intend to play the role, you must do it as if the zoners had the muscle to enforce the No Fire Zones.

Shooting NPCs in a NFZ is the same than flying a Titan with gallic brigands weapons, and an Outcast ID, it doesn't make sense in RP.

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

[RedEclipse]

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

Simple because NFZ brings the most uninteresting, bloating, tedious gameplay, that's why most people don't like it. Our group(Phoenix) that comes from the roots of Zoner Trading Consortium do not enforce NFZ within Omicrons. Furthermore, the Outworlder Assembly which we are representing doesn't have any NFZ(though the future of Zoners and Outworders is still unclear). For example those "laws"
make it fun game play and has the sense in RP without any NFZ. But without resoluteness within devs/admins Phoenix/Outworlders has gone into limbo, but I hope something will happen in the near future.

Either way If you like the idea of Zoner defense force - looking forward to seeing you in game, just keep in mind Outworlders is a bit different thing, which could use combat assist as a united group, not a bunch of individuals like generic Zoners are, at least speaking of inRP sense.

[Doc Holliday]

Now here's a suggestion and I've done this many times in my many, MANY years in this server. Create a summit, inviting all the major players of Zoner factions and Freeport Administrators. Zoner POBs should also be included. It gives you a chance to introduce yourself, state your mission and to iron out any differences you will have with those people. Some will go along with you, some will not. You will at least get some respect from them and at worse, those that don't support you will at least avoid your stance.

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

This. What people often think is that a Zoner ID makes you immune to piracy or that you can go anywhere you wish. This is an illusion. MOST pirates will leave you be but not all and there will be some who don't like you for whatever reason. Being a Zoner is about RP first, pew pew later.

NFZs are a roleplay thing, not a rule.

This is mostly true. NFZ's are Zoner law, NOT server rule. If someone is loitering in an NFZ, game rules apply to engagement however to make them leave, server rules of RP apply. Players love testing the waters of NFZ's to see if you will engage them using excuses such as "I'm waiting for someone" or "I'm plotting a course." As a FP admin, I give you about 30 secs to plot your course and if you must wait, go 5k out or whatever the zone is for that FP.

Remember, being a Zoner is more about RP than anything. You are a person who dislikes house rule. You are a person who doesn't care what side of the law one walks, what there politics are or where they come from. You must learn to either give something to all to achieve your peace or give nothing and justify the action. Just keep this in mind.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[Kullman]

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

Simple because NFZ brings the most uninteresting, bloating, tedious gameplay, that's why most people don't like it.

So, as most people like PvP, the server should change to a PvP one.

[Leo]

All very good points, lots of replies since I went to sleep last night. Let's answer some of them, shall we?

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1) Good point, admins need to step in likely and write them themselves
2) That's what Freeports are for - you gave up on them, but they and NFZs exist - as long as they do it's great someone will now be making them relevant no?

1) No, admins do not as it's not there place. Right now, those who do run a Freeport need to do it themselves OR work together.
2) No one gave up on them. In a day where people would rather pew pew than actually be diplomatic or be a house government that flexes its power and forces people to choose. Bretonia and FP1 has a long history of that. Kusari and FP6 is another.

They can't do that - this is one of the rare instances where rule changes are actually good.
Governments and House Lawfuls are powerless anywhere but Penns against Freeports - no RP consequences for things happening outside of house space.

And I can speak for my unlawful factions - we will never try to FR5 Zoners because WE shot in ZONER Freeport NFZ. Sure we will shoot people, even zoners, but can't imagine anyone would try to impose rp consequences against Zoners.

There's literally only one faction that can cause Zoners trouble - as they always have in the past - it rhymes with Bore and they have their own laws they can apply where freeports are unlike houses.

All good points. While I have nothing to add to your debate, I will say that while the NFZ's have been neglected or not enforced for--what seems like years--and our intent is to RP out the enforcement of those zones for the protection of those who fly to a Freeport. While we will RP maintaining neutrality, if anyone opens fire, they'll be targeted and destroyed. If we lose the fight, well, that's something that can be RPed on the forums in the form of a message dump or communication to those offending parties in the communications forum. We're an RP faction first, PvP second, but we won't hesitate to defend ourselves or bases.

Problem is, and will always be, if other players don't respect the No Fire Zones...

I have an experience, years ago, with a Corsair group of fighters and bombers camping near a Freeport, and killing every NPC hostile to them.

After reminding them about the NFZ, and beeing ignored, I used a "Fearless" destroyer with my zoner guard character and tried to RP the defense of the NFZ, beeing ignored at first, and killed at last.

Admins need to discourage (temp ban) this kind of behaviour if the No Fire Zones are supposed to be maintained.

If you aren't a Nomad or Wild, killing a zoner without provocation is completely OORP, specially if he is making trade runs to your faction bases.

Using your example from years ago, this is where you could reach out to a ZDF member to come and assist. I'm currently working on placing a ZDF ship of mine on each Freeport to be able to react at a moments notice to help other Zoners, even independent ones. Think of it like calling for immediate backup. As long as someone's awake that is, we can't always be ready to play video games. Wouldn't that be a perfect world?

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

Simple because NFZ brings the most uninteresting, bloating, tedious gameplay, that's why most people don't like it. Our group(Phoenix) that comes from the roots of Zoner Trading Consortium do not enforce NFZ within Omicrons. Furthermore, the Outworlder Assembly which we are representing doesn't have any NFZ(though the future of Zoners and Outworders is still unclear). For example those "laws"
make it fun game play and has the sense in RP without any NFZ. But without resoluteness within devs/admins Phoenix/Outworlders has gone into limbo, but I hope something will happen in the near future.

Either way If you like the idea of Zoner defense force - looking forward to seeing you in game, just keep in mind Outworlders is a bit different thing, which could use combat assist as a united group, not a bunch of individuals like generic Zoners are, at least speaking of inRP sense.

I hear you that you feel the NFZ's are uninteresting and tedious. That's what I'm aiming to remedy. The faction document shows that we're gonna blow up anyone who violates that rule/Zoner Law but in truth we'll be sitting in these zones around space and waiting for people to RP with. Just last night I was sitting around Bethlehem Station and RPed with a couple of people passing by or docking for items. I didn't get much in return, but I made the attempt.

Also, most of the characters I've made or factions I've been apart of in the past have all been outside of House space. I've never been one to join a House faction unless they were pirates because I like the "romance" I guess of being a renegade or neerdowell. This will be a challenge, but believe me, I'm up to it.

I like and welcome the ZDF initiative. It may very well bring NFZ's back to life as well help enforce them better than which is currently a reality.
As the administrator of FP1 I'd love to see regular ZDF patrols around the Freeport. Not so much (over-)policing but merely being present and showing the flag. Or so to speak. Whether you want to do that is entirely up to those in the ZDF.

Looking forward to working with you in the future! Let us know if you ever need anything...in RP of course.

Zoner Defense Fleet does sound a bit very on the nose, though I suppose that may be your intention. The tag looks kinda clunky, if you ask me, especially if you add a three-letter ship prefix right after. |ZDF|ZCV-Namehere is awfully front loaded. Arguably, the Z in the prefix isn't needed anymore since the faction tag already clarifies the Zoner affiliation. It would also have a smoother appearance if you dropped the first |.

That's my two cents. Glad to see someone enforcing NFZs again.

Good points, thanks for the feedback. You're right, it is a bit redundant. I'll correct the ship tags. Might be a little bit until we can update them in game though as we recently renamed for the tag. Oof.

all the times i saw rying to make a zoner defence force, not only didn't last long but also their actions just made it all worse.

i wish you good luck, despite knowing that this will not last long.

take ecare and have fun.

A bit of a pessimistic view, but I can see how you'd feel that way. Just know that we're in this for the long haul. At least I know I am. Even if I'm the only one running the faction unofficially in the future, I'll still be doing it on my own even if I become a Meme.

Good luck returning the No Fire Zones active again
Listen to @Doc Holliday , He got a vast experience concerning Zoners
Hopefully, you can make a difference, best of luck!

Oh for sure! @Doc Holliday is the "Zoner man" in my mind. Ever since I've been around he's been a Zoner. I always appreciate his feedback and insight as well as anyone else who has experience being a Zoner or faction leader.

Now here's a suggestion and I've done this many times in my many, MANY years in this server. Create a summit, inviting all the major players of Zoner factions and Freeport Administrators. Zoner POBs should also be included. It gives you a chance to introduce yourself, state your mission and to iron out any differences you will have with those people. Some will go along with you, some will not. You will at least get some respect from them and at worse, those that don't support you will at least avoid your stance.

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

This. What people often think is that a Zoner ID makes you immune to piracy or that you can go anywhere you wish. This is an illusion. MOST pirates will leave you be but not all and there will be some who don't like you for whatever reason. Being a Zoner is about RP first, pew pew later.

NFZs are a roleplay thing, not a rule.

This is mostly true. NFZ's are Zoner law, NOT server rule. If someone is loitering in an NFZ, game rules apply to engagement however to make them leave, server rules of RP apply. Players love testing the waters of NFZ's to see if you will engage them using excuses such as "I'm waiting for someone" or "I'm plotting a course." As a FP admin, I give you about 30 secs to plot your course and if you must wait, go 5k out or whatever the zone is for that FP.

Remember, being a Zoner is more about RP than anything. You are a person who dislikes house rule. You are a person who doesn't care what side of the law one walks, what there politics are or where they come from. You must learn to either give something to all to achieve your peace or give nothing and justify the action. Just keep this in mind.

I really like the idea of doing a forum RP post for a summit at Gran Canaria. I hadn't thought of that. Thank you for the suggestion. I'll add that to my list of things to do for the faction.

The RP is a challenge, I'm well aware of this. I basically want to ensure that NFZ's are enforced for players new and veteran alike. I remember them being a fairly serious thing to break back when I played last so I'd like to see something like this again. Also, I see a lot of independent Zoners around that don't have escorts. I'd like to help them out by escorting them to their destination and maybe getting some RP in with them at the same time. That's sort of the secondary purpose for the faction that wasn't really touched upon enough in the document (which I'm going to update to reflect this).

TL;DR - We're an RP faction first, "pew pew" second. Thanks for your guidance!

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I wasn't expecting so many posts throughout the night while I was asleep! If only I could have been awake to respond to them in real time. I hope my replies answered any questions or concerns and thank you all for the wonderful feedback on the document itself. I'm planning on making some updates today (when I have time between stuff at work) with many of the feedback items everyone here gave me. I understand there is a lot of pessimism concerning Zoners and NFZ's but with what we have planned, I assure you it'll be fun. Hopefully many of you can be apart of those plans when they happen if you're in the area.

Thanks all! Looking forward to anymore feedback that you have!

~Leo

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[Mephistoles]

If the zoner neutrality isn't respected, then it's better to delete the faction, because it would lose all the meaning...

Simple because NFZ brings the most uninteresting, bloating, tedious gameplay, that's why most people don't like it.

So, as most people like PvP, the server should change to a PvP one.

Hi, this is a different matter that should be discussed elsewhere so as not to fill up this faction's feedback thread.

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Sigma & GMG Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/d4j3W4v

[Leo]

Updated with all feedback.

• Updated section for more information on Zoner escort services.
  
• Streamlined vessel tag identifiers. Looks much cleaner.
  
• Added Links Section as well as Message Dump link and a few RP posts for background.
  

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[Aazalot]

This is a doomed Venture from the Start. The moment you begin fielding "defense" ships, you will be questioned as to why then accused of not being neutral and then you WILL be targeted.
Then we get down to the RP side of things. First off, don't even think that the amount of in game ship's will count for anything should you try to get involved with plot. As we saw with the Annex of Gran Canaria plot line, as far as the story goes, Zoner's do not have any real fire power to push back anything, they are not a united front, nor ever will be. There have been many, many, many, many, many attempts at some sort of Zoner Fleet, pretty sure your not even the first ZDF and they all failed. Mostly because the community doesn't want one and because you WILL BE TARGETED just for the LoLs.
Zoner's are viewed as pacafists, ones who shouldn't have capitol ship's and other groups will take issue with you fielding capitol ships in what they consider their space.

As someone who tried to enforce NFZ and Zoner law's for years, as OSI Security Lead, then the Confederation of Freeports Leader and then as part of Velvet, the reason Velvet and myself essentially gave up is because of the amount of OOC and IC drama that was caused by those abusing it and the fact alot of Zoner players are not PvPers so we would get out played and couldn't enforce the NFZs at times,. The biggest reason of all was a chat i had with a Story Dev who essentially told me that Freeport Administrator's actually have no power over the NPC stations such as Freeports. So i made the decision that the only stations we would actively protect are our own POBs.

A Zoner Defense Fleet is a taboo in the server. If you REALLY want to try this, keep to using Snub craft and maybe gunboats because I guarantee the use of Capitol's will be your down fall.

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