(06-10-2023, 09:45 AM)Lusitano Wrote: so you can also add that line to the zoner id, or it is just because you have a empty liner that you want to fill up?
would make sense if they add a bonus on some liberty lawful commod - like marines or supplies to Erie from colorado or something with event plugin
disclaimer, im not involved with whoever made this request at all (i dont know who it is, but i have a hunch) and i think theyre a retard for making it and it's fine that it was denied
but this points out a serious fucking issue
can we not have story weigh in on denying player requests because they think everything is a fucking conspiracy? this just sets the precedent that everything can be denied by claiming its a conspiracy
thanks. lets not talk about the conspiracy of two story devs working together to further outcast and xeno relations in the meantime
PS: still waiting on a dev feedback thread
That was our request to change Gallic lawful to Liberty lawful reps from hostile. We just wanted to reflect RP on the government level, not a big deal for Gallic Navy either way in practice due to distances between houses, the roleplay didn't come from us - calling the reasoning behind the request out is calling out both Gallic and Liberty Governments - we just played along and wanted to reflect in-game reps with wide-spread player roleplay.
The devs step in and block the smallest admin decisions, and their word is absolute:
This was an attempt to revive the Zurich-Cologne region, to make Zois of both houses overlap.
Quote: objected because the presence of two navies across what is essentially a border crossing is unnecessary, this situation is a little awkward though since Zurich isn't a true buffer system like Cortez is for example. But all the same, I would insist that both gameplay and lore are in sync here, meaning that Rheinland secures Cologne while Gallia secures Zurich. This should once again represent the nature of every House as being stretched too thin to secure every stretch of space at once, let alone all the systems they already lay claim to.
i.e. a dev that never even played or understands the region steps in and singlehandedly blocks a perk request to admins all OFs and Governments agreed on that intends to make the region more alive. They don't even understand the basic mechanics of the game where they think Zoi = "the faction secures the system". Gallia doesn't secure Tau-53, Bretonia doesn't secure Omega-5 etc.
Since the devs have in practice complete veto control over what the admins do when it comes to rephack and zoi player requests and perks this should be the correct place for the feedback actually.
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I couldn't care less about any allegations of conspiracy. I chimed in on this request but at no point mentioned one.
My problem is the timeline we're working with here (simplified):
Gallia "wakes up" as the big bad, the antagonist to all of the Sirian Houses.
Gallia beats up Kusari a bit on their way to wage war upon Bretonia.
Gallia's offensive reaches Leeds.
Loads of fighting between Gallia and Bretonia & Liberty. Gallia pushes as far as California.
It all culminates in a large battle over New London with Liberty also directly involved.
Gallia glasses Leeds.
We end up with "Confederate Gallia" and "The Enclave". The latter group are the people who, after committing the most horrific war crime in Sirius' history, still didn't think to themselves: "Are we the baddies?" but instead continued to fight the good fight.
Fast-forward a bit to Kusari declaring war on Gallia. Kusari makes advances.
The Enclave makes a heroic return to their House and help kick out Kusari. "Bad" and "Good" Gallia re-unite.
???
Liberty and Gallia make peace.
You see how this doesn't really work? The Sirian Houses are incredibly interconnected and interdependent. Liberty, for example, needs Kusari's H-Fuel. So we're working with Houses here that for 800 years didn't wage war, and have been relying on one another and trading with one another for that period as well. They may not all think alike but they're definitely "close". The worst atrocity in that entire history, by far, is committed by these foul Gauls. That would not be forgiven nor forgotten any time soon. Gallia bailed itself out of being a pariah state by having the Enclave as a separate entity -- but this is no longer the case. They're all one now.
Sure, maybe they've cleaned out some of the worst offenders. But we're still harboring horrible war criminals here. Liberty should be demanding reparations, demanding every ex-Enclave pilot be handed over and tried for their war crimes. That is the logical continuation here. A sudden "Hey, we LOVE Gallia now!" tone change is just insane.
I'll briefly address the hilarious claim I've heard that Ageira just wants competition with EFL that badly: no. This is not how corporations work. There is something corporations love way more than competition, and that is a monopoly. The best way for Ageira to out-compete EFL for trade/jumpgate tech is.. To have Gallia be viewed by everyone as a pariah state, so that nobody can or wants to do business with them, and Ageira gets to charge whatever they want.
I don't have a dog in this fight but, as an outsider, I have questions.
When two factions or houses that are hostile in game, in this case lawful Gallia vs lawful Liberty, and both sides no longer want to be hostile, what is the appropriate actions required to become, at the very least, neutral? The explanation makes sense - was this explained in the initial rejection? Is there a path that can be taken by both parties, through role play, to achieve their goals?
I hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments. But rather, by the strength we show when, and if, we're ever given a second chance.
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(06-11-2023, 01:17 PM)Racerdude Wrote: I don't have a dog in this fight but, as an outsider, I have questions.
When two factions or houses that are hostile in game, in this case lawful Gallia vs lawful Liberty, and both sides no longer want to be hostile, what is the appropriate actions required to become, at the very least, neutral? The explanation makes sense - was this explained in the initial rejection? Is there a path that can be taken by both parties, through role play, to achieve their goals?
If the Order and the Nomads request neutrality, should we take that request seriously? Should we provide them a path to achieving their goals? Probably not, right.
This isn't that different.
In the current state of the game universe and story this development doesn't make sense. Maybe we could offer some alternatives (I mentioned Ageira logically wanting EFL to be shunned by the Sirian houses for their own benefit) to pursue, but I doubt we're going to entertain the idea of Gallia - Liberty neutrality in the near future.
Nomads vs Order, or really Nomads vs anybody else, has no parity as it relates to two human factions in competition. They are a different species with 0 ability to communicate or maintain diplomacy. Until that happens, there is a 0% chance of anything other than conflict to take place between the two. Corsairs vs Outcasts, on the other hand, would make a better candidate in this case. For Outcasts and Corsairs to make peace, it would require an extraordinary story with god-like narration and a story that is impossible to say no to. I don't see that happening and my money is that you also don't see that happening.
To reiterate, your explanation on Gallia vs Liberty not making peace at this time makes sense. There is not enough RP, the story needs to catch up, it's too soon to atrocities in war - I'm with you. There has to be a reason, roleplay, motivation for both sides to set aside their differences for mutual gain. It has to make sense.
My inquiry has to do with the process. I'm asking for not only myself, but people reading who may be interested in dabbling with faction affairs and gaining insight on how to rationally steer their respective factions in a direction, any direction.
What is the appropriate actions required to become, at the very least, neutral?
The explanation makes sense - was this explained in the initial rejection?
Is there a path that can be taken by both parties, through role play, to achieve their goals?
I believe future discussion about Gallia vs Liberty relations should have it's own thread - my post is swinging it back around to admin feedback (do we have a dev feedback thread?) and how the process works both for approvals and denials. Just saying "na" doesn't make sense to me, I'd like to think there is more that goes into informing players of rejections and approvals.
Side note, I have noticed devs in general becoming more active on the forum. I don't know why this is, but thank you. Whether we agree or disagree, it's good to see an increase in dev participation in community topics/concerns.
I hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments. But rather, by the strength we show when, and if, we're ever given a second chance.
(06-11-2023, 11:59 AM)Haste Wrote: Sure, maybe they've cleaned out some of the worst offenders. But we're still harboring horrible war criminals here. Liberty should be demanding reparations, demanding every ex-Enclave pilot be handed over and tried for their war crimes. That is the logical continuation here. A sudden "Hey, we LOVE Gallia now!" tone change is just insane.
a bit of an assumption, but calling an end to a "war" that hasnt been a war for three? years now with the only parties trying to continue it being literally me getting an LSF battlecruiser parked in the taus until the insurgency purge happened. which led to nothing because no one cared about the taus at the time, isnt exactly what you call "love".
besides, liberty can either be the paragon of justice and peace or the greedy house seeing a chance to take advantage of an entity in a compromised position. which will it be? you cant choose both, because story is currently leaning into a greedy and oppressive house instead of the Sirius Police.
besides the only actual RP so far has been liberty saying "this cold war is cringe" and gallia trying to get in their pants good graces with no success yet
Quote:I'll briefly address the hilarious claim I've heard that Ageira just wants competition with EFL that badly: no. This is not how corporations work. There is something corporations love way more than competition, and that is a monopoly. The best way for Ageira to out-compete EFL for trade/jumpgate tech is.. To have Gallia be viewed by everyone as a pariah state, so that nobody can or wants to do business with them, and Ageira gets to charge whatever they want.
for what it counts libgov was content on being prejudiced as fuck towards EFL and allowing them to dock on basically nothing
(06-11-2023, 01:17 PM)Racerdude Wrote: I don't have a dog in this fight but, as an outsider, I have questions.
When two factions or houses that are hostile in game, in this case lawful Gallia vs lawful Liberty, and both sides no longer want to be hostile, what is the appropriate actions required to become, at the very least, neutral? The explanation makes sense - was this explained in the initial rejection? Is there a path that can be taken by both parties, through role play, to achieve their goals?
If the Order and the Nomads request neutrality, should we take that request seriously? Should we provide them a path to achieving their goals? Probably not, right.
This isn't that different.
In the current state of the game universe and story this development doesn't make sense. Maybe we could offer some alternatives (I mentioned Ageira logically wanting EFL to be shunned by the Sirian houses for their own benefit) to pursue, but I doubt we're going to entertain the idea of Gallia - Liberty neutrality in the near future.
There was game update with story snippets how Liberty and Gallia corporations are now seen in each other house. That was like three years ago. Are you a decade behind the story developements on this front while being lead developer?
Third paragraph:
Business and free trade boom, as the Houses once again begin to open their borders to one another. GMS convoys provide Liberty with precious metals, and Bounty Hunter Guildsmen seek new fortunes in the fifth house. Even the commerce juggernaut Interspace has begun to make investments in the new financial frontier.
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