Most likely the OP started the thread because he found himself having had a lackluster experience in a ship that I'm sure many of us would like to see more of around the place. And you will most likely see most complaining about balance from people in BH ships because they end up facing the most varied opponents.
So we can discuss balancing it using concrete examples...
Today
Manta (probably above average pilot); nukes
One SS with twin debs (level 8); twin buckshots (~average pilot); nukes
One SS with one deb (level 8); one level 8 magma hammer and two level 9 magma hammers (~average pilot) nukes
vs
RH gunship (pilot seemed ~average)
Having run into a stationary battleship, the gunship was depleted and had to retreat a bit, so we decided to chase it. And we would have got it had not we lost the sea serpent with the magma hammers...with the high damage it had a noticeable impact on the battle. Once it was gone, there just wasnt enough firepower to take the gs down any more. Nukes caused more harm to us than him, until we got the shields down. The gs hit the ss with its shields down with a razor, so that size is crucial if you're side on against something that has turret view.
' Wrote:One SS with one deb (level 8); one level 8 magma hammer and two level 9 magma hammers (~average pilot) nukes
No nukes on 22'nd-Bang. I don't like them. Screamers is my mine of choice. I don't drop mines indescrimately. Mine button gets mashed once just before a pass, IF I think the opponent is continuing along the same vector I came from, to minimize the tracking needed by the mine.
Also, the Magma Hammers we got from the [LN] helps - Against targets bomber size and up. The 2.0 refire rate is not good against LF/HF/VHF class ships, unless you can land every shot on high maneuavering targets, and that is impossible.
And as far as my death, it not mines, but the Gunship that got me with an high aspect dropshot on the side of my SS during a pass, also evidenced by the killmessage.
So yes, the SS side aspect is on the large side. If that can't be adjusted, it might be an idea to look into a minor buff in either maneuaverability, or hull strength.
Also, I need to remember that it is not as necessary to conserve bats on a LF, as it is on a cap ship. Au contraire actually.
Out of bats, Out of bots, Out of torps - Down to harsh language...
' Wrote:My experience fighting it and tenacity's flying it says otherwise. Proper sliding might be the best idea still.
If you use nukes you lost the shield as well and might even die. While with screamers you hurt GB shields without danger to yourself.
They should hit more than nukes. Besides how much damage does a SS with nukes do after it dies to own nuke?
=======================
The armor can't be upped toHF level, so it would still die to one Nuke/Mini/GB Razor and some 200 damage.
I have some turning stats somewhere that were used before Skoko said that it was too much fun.
When you joust in a LF against a proper pilot, you are dead meat. this might change if the other ship has slow proectile or refire weapons. but fact is: jousting in a lF is very unhealthy. Maybe you and Tenacity were lucky. maybe you are just good pilots. maybe you fought poor pilots. I don't know. but fact remains: joust in a LF and you die.
screamers down the shield of an enemy ship. (and maybe your own) and then what? use 4 peashooters to try and get some damage in? that's the 2nd (universal) problem here: damage output.
you have to be cautious with mine usage on a LF. I prefer being able to acutally properly damage an enemy ship, rather than ista -down his shield, only to be unable to hurt his hull.
I think all light fighters which are size of the heavy fighter needs something to balance their size weakness. And that is not only Sea serpent. For example Griffin and heyna, they need something too. Loki has torp slot while being not so large, and comparing it to other lightfighters, something seems quite not right.
Thought I'd update based on our most recent experience.
Mjolnir's point on "pilot error" is indeed correct. A group of four Sea Serpents managed to destroy three bombers (two Barghests and a Falcata) and a heavy fighter - werewolf I think and left the fight pretty easily once some missile toting gunboat turned up. The only real drawback was damage output with 4.00 refire guns but with slow refiring high damage Magma Hammers there was a noticeable improvement. Still, four ships focussed on one bomber took quite a while...enough time for one of the enemy ships to drop 87 nuclear mines.
The bigger size seems to make a negligible difference once you
a. only drop mines by co ordinating it in group
b. stay out of range when enemy ships drop mines
c. use other group tactics
d. buy up all the mines in every neighbouring system
e. use enemy mines against them
f. remember the LF is made of paper
What I did notice was that proper use of the evasive ability of light fighters in a big fight or where there are many obstacles drains the thruster and once that happens you can be vulnerable for a little bit.
In a fight in an asteroid field, bashing into a rock allows a above average opponent to land a razor and instakill you.
I don't suggest for a second this shouldn't be the case: light does mean light after all. But the size thing hurts in those environments.
So:
slight resize down
new LF weapons - damage over anything else would be the priority
armour increase won't do much if an enemy can load up that many instakill weapons against you
edit: I'd rate the LF pilots as average. They may not like it, but it's true.
yes, damage output is a problem. the 2.00 solved that partly. but that's history again so with 2 buckies and 2 Warrior III we will be busy on 1 bomber for a while again. let alone if we trhow in a deb. then you have even less hull damage per salvo.
I hope the LF plans include some 'heavy' hitters for LFs.
the problem with LFs is that if you do badly it's over in 2 seconds and if you do well it takes like 50 hours and some of us have jobs. I would need to take the day off work to solo a bomber. the risk/reward is way out of whack.
Some LF's can dish out damage, because they mount a torp slot and possess just enough energy to fire one. But even the biggest damage of existing guns is not enough.
Because of mines you can't afford to sit behind a target. One or two well-aimed shots with a high damage gun are far more desirable because anything else requires flying straight into the inevitable mines.
It did strike me that an armour buff should be considered for all light fighters, so that a player doesn't have to die when he hits that first mine. Certainly just enough to survive one would do, but seeing as it's possible to carry 70 mines I don't think such a change would be unreasonable.
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