"Elite factions"

[Govedo13]

Unbalance is part of the challenge.

I strongly disagree.
Challenge is to win against someone with better skills then yours when you both technically have equal chances to win.
I cannot see why having unfair advantage due to game mechanics is any kind of challenge?

I can give you example- how would you feel even in scorpion gb if you face 1 fighter with 4 DEFILER guns and his bomber fella. given that both can fly ships? I guarantee that you wont feel "challenged" bur screwed like the miners who eat the punch of the cruiser dps gb turrets.

Don't get me wrong I also have more indie characters, I have fun and I have the tech that I want/need from factions if required. The question here is quite simple. Why the said factions posses such technology and why when they posses it act in most of the cases like the factions from Bucket post?
Why exactly this factions feedbacks get locked all the time because of the hate spilled there from the both "challenged " and "challengers"?

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Veygaar]

I strongly disagree. Challenge is to win against someone with better skills then yours when you have equal chances to win. I cannot see why having unfair advantage due to game mechanics is any kind of challenge?
I can give you example- how would you feel even in scorpion gb if you face 1 fighter with 4 DEFILER guns and his bomber fella. given that both can fly ships? I guarantee that you wont feel "challenged" bur screwed like the miners who eat the punch of the cruiser dps gb turrets.

Challenge is when you have the odds stacked against you mate. Everyone knows that. Whether those odd's are better skill of another player, or better weapons.

I've faced a Scorpion before in my KuEx. FAR better tech than me. And I took it as a challenged. Guess how it turned out? I've taken on swarms of snubs on my own. Even up to 8 at one time. I feel very challenged. Do I always win? Heck no. But I do learn

If equality is what you want, why do you play a game where you can't lose?

The question here is quite simple. Why the said factions posses such technology and why when they posses it act in most of the cases like the factions from Bucket post?

Because inRP they are more powerful/have better weapons than you average fellas? If everyone COULD be these fella's then everyone WOULD be them. Having a small amount of them makes it more fair to the rest of us because we then have the 'numbers' on our side. If you really want to be them, then do as I said eariler:

If you really want in an elite faction you should do this thing called ROLE PLAY, and get to know the fellas in charge of the faction and ask to/show them your RP. That's what this server is about, interacting with other people...

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Ayem]

No I wouldn't recognise any difference if the said factions ship-lines and guns are balanced properly like the rest of the sirius factions. And as Hone said for the casual trader/miner there is no difference if he is shot by 8 gunner corsair gb or 8 gunner wilde gb, if the wilde gb turrets dont have cruiser dps.

A pirate is restricted in having to demand credits or cargo, in a gunboat, transport or fighter/bomber (important, because it takes time for these ships to kill a trader, time that can be used for running). If you surrender your goods or cargo, that pirate is unable to kill you. You can proceed on your way merrily. Alive, and with an intact ship.

Someone with a Wild ID can blow you out of a tradelane, drop a "Hello, you picked the wrong lane" and pop your trader with his battleship before you make it into cruise. Battleship weapons are more powerful than gunboat weapons.

Can you recall any instances when that happened?

Why the said factions posses such technology and why when they posses it act in most of the cases like the factions from Bucket post?

We don't.

---

[Govedo13]

Ok I guess I have to give you another example to get what I mean. Imagine CS- casual 1v1 one plays CT other one Plays T ,one have Ak 47 the other guy have M16, for the sake of fairness both guns are balanced to be equal.
1 My idea of challenge- I am the T player wining against more skilled CT player, or he is winning against me etc. whoever. Disco version - casual 1vs1 VHFs

2 Your idea of challenge - CT player start his Aimbot hack and scores Headshot after Headshot, I feel very challenged. Disco Version Casual 1v1 VHFs when one of the players brings 2 solaris osiris to his side.

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Ayem]

You seem to overestimate the advantage nomad weapons give.

---

[Veygaar]

2 Your idea of challenge - CT player start his Aimbot hack and scores Headshot after Headshot, I feel very challenged.

But these 'unfair' ships/setups you speak of ARE beatable... Whether by superior numbers or skill. Yeah sometimes you die, THATS the game. But these 'elite' factions you speak of. DIE ALL THE TIME. They're not indestructible at all. In fact they're quite beatable.

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Govedo13]

In fact they're quite beatable.

I know the aimbot guy is also beatable if you make headshot to him before he shoots, or if you stalk him from behind, I have also done scorpions gbs without problem. The VHF guy can double nuke the second VHF guy with the Osiris backup and cruise away from the battleships. This is not the point here. The point is with what this factions deserve that tactical advantage?

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Veygaar]

inRP those factions HAVE a tactical advantage. Why is that bad? Like I said... Not unfair... Just a challenge.

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Ayem]

Rip.Red.Rorry once blew me up in his Liberty Rogue/Molly gunboat back when he flew it. He had two Corsair gunboats with him. See? Beatable.

Edit: Why do elite factions deserve a tactical advantage?
That's a good question.
Why do Outcasts deserve Krakens and Infernos. Why do Corsairs deserve Tizonas?
Why do the Council deserve the Agama?

Answer: It's not about deserving it. It's about flavour.

Most of the invite only factions are "antagonist" factions. The factions -everyone- can hate, or fight against, or both. Most factions in freelancer only have a few real enemies. Some only have one or two. Some have none.

For an antagonist faction, the whole universe is hostile, and they are hostile to the whole universe.

Red Hessians and Daumann could fight together against a Wild who showed up.
Order and BHG can join forces to take down a Nomad Marduk.

There are many situations where the above would apply to a regular faction, ie. mercenaries showing up to help BAF kill a Corsair, however that is a less common phenomenon per flight for regular factions than it is for antagonist factions.

Flavour: If an enemy is "more powerful" than you, then your victory becomes the sweeter. You have taken down Goliath, David! The weapons available to antagonist factions do not make one person as powerful as two, or three, or four people. The weapon's stats do not bear that out, and weapons are not the only measure by which combat is determined. There is ship, maneuverability, luck, backup, resupply, npc numbers and hostility, etc.

---

[Govedo13]

inRP those factions HAVE a tactical advantage. Why is that bad? Like I said... Not unfair... Just a challenge.

Ok lets play the moot "IN RP " game. In RP the corsairs are best ship builders is Sirius, why the Voidrunner is faster then the Titan? :lol:
I try to speak about the game balance here, in RP every faction is better then the rest because the people who RP that faction like it that way. Game mechanics have nothing to do with RP.
And I never said that they are unbeatable. It is just not the point of the discussion. Since it is hard to discuss with you I will ask again why in-Real balance terms not in some imaginary RP ones, why players from this factions have unfair advantage compared with the other factions? And why the majority of the community just cope with it like it is np till other OP stuff get nerfed and frown upon a lot? BS GS for example, Zoner GB turrets for Indies as well as many others?
Edit:
We start to repeat each other I will quote to you what i wrote a few pages back when jammi told us that this factions deserve better ships and weapons because they would face many enemies:

Bering outnumbered is part of the game, it is moot point since it affects everybody playing the game. Lets give better guns and ships to all factions in Sirius because they might be in situation where they might be outnumbered?

So we gone trough the 2 moot arguments- the RP one and we have many enemies one. Corsairs fight Zoners Outcasts, BAF,RM, IMG, GMG.,CR, SCRA,BHG,Hessians,Nomads, Wild, and various others, lets make Corsair guns OP with 750 speed because of it? I await the third moot argument. Under weapons I understand not only guns but the whole PvP enabling stuff like you said ships etc.

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)