How many more agile VHF's are there?
One or two?
A faster moving fighter class shield killer than the Deb?
No?
I'd rather face a Gaurdian with Vengeances or a Stinger with Skyblasts than an Eagle with Flashpoints AND Debilitators.
The Osiris battleship is actually made by Corsairs at Tripoli so for someone to claim to know in-game corsair rumors and lore and such like, you seem rather niave.
Please try to keep with the spirit of this sir.
@ Athenian, I agree with most of what you said. I don't think this should be about corsairs using Debs. It should be about everyone using their own tech, assuming they have it. Only if they don't have a ship/gun/shampoo & conditioner in that particular class should they use civilian tech.
Imo, If you have guns at lvl X, you don't get civilian ones.
I have a Legionaire. How many corsair guns are class 4 and yet it has gun slots. So I HAVE to use an alternative.
I have a Titan which has 4 class 10 slots and two class 9. I have all Corsair weapons available in this range so thats what I should use.
Blah blah blah, who cares? Might as well have Titans with debilitators, but then of course if it suddenly is proven that this particular loadout is too strong on a Titan... well, instead of it being the problem of the players, it becomes a problem of the dev team. Now, 4 pages of rants is not going to solve anything (since all that I see here are back and forth arguments anyway), so might as well concede and let the Corsairs use civvie tech, as after all I don't see how they would have problems getting it in RP. Sure, the pride might stop some, but not all. Outcasts buy most of their fighters on the open market (Sabre is not Outcast, its a independently made fighter), so yeah.
Oh and Corsair eagle or Outcast eagle, same thing. Both kind of weird mostly due to the guns both factions can use, but oh well, anything for the pvp advantage I guess... perhaps this argument will end if dev team has another look at the Eagle's pvp advantages?
Normally I don't make a reply to anything in these forums but for some odd reason I felt like it.
One of the things I've seen a lot of in this thread seems to be a sincere insistance that the number of weapon lines available is important. Well, quite frankly, and pardon me if I'm wrong, I don't see a reason why that should limit anything in RP terms. Just because they have access to it doesn't mean they will use it, and even if they do, what's wrong with it?
Sina's note about Corsairs flying Sabres is something I'm wholely in agreement with. I, in fact, both inRP and OORP shunned the Sabre because of what it stood for to me, namely Outcasts and PvPWhores, respectively. On the RP side, Corsairs wouldn't touch the Border Worlds shipline with the tip of a longsword simply because of what it represents. Civilian shipline on the other hand...represents...weakness? Lack of funding/finances/resources? Really, I can think of a slew of reasons why a Corsair would let go of his pride in favor of a psychological advantage. Surely if a few of you were to use a Civilian shipline or line of weapons, the Outcasts would begin considering the possibility that the Corsairs were doing it out of necessity and possibly even lacking the resources to continue replacing their Titans and such. Although that's a big step, and its unlikely they'd go that far, its more than enough to use against them.
As to the PvP "fairness" factor, I must ask, since it seems to be an incredible concern of yours...
...Dab...when was the last time you killed a VHF with pulse cannons? Surely it must happen often if its such a big deal to you...
Pulses don't kill ships. They help kill ships.
That's my one thousand characters on the matter,
T.M.E.
"He who has one thousand friends will find he has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will find him everywhere."
***"WE"...begin*** :Of the Tlaloc's meeting the Gleamshrike:
Quote:Welcome to the Corsair Customer Service Helpdesk; if you have a complaint, please <strike>press 1</strike> hang up and try again.
Of course, we could always consider renaming civilian stuff "decommissioned mmilitary weapons" and make them merc only. That way, no one would get debs...just mercs....
' Wrote:Of course, we could always consider renaming civilian stuff "decommissioned mmilitary weapons" and make them merc only. That way, no one would get debs...just mercs....
Anyone?
No problems here just be ready to hand out alternative shield-busting weapons to all factions that will suffer from this restriction, which will be quite a pain...
Personally I don't even use Debilators on my Corsair, but that is beside the point. The point I'm trying to make is that if Civ tech is indeed for everyone, then it should stay that way regardless of what factions have for equipment available to them.
' Wrote:As has been said several times by several developers.. If we take that approach, everyone will end up flying ships with identical stats, using weapons with identical stats, and there will be no diversity. This mod isn't about what the best pvp setup you can get is. This mod is about playing your character the best way you can that is in-keeping with your faction's lore and roleplay. The Corsair roleplay has them thinking of other faction's technology as inferior and thus, not usable. This is the same stance the Gallic Royal Navy has. Guess what, they aren't allowed to use Debs either. In fact, they have sub-par shield busters that don't even sync with their own weapons. The Corsairs at least have a shield buster with the same projectile speed of their hullbusters, so consider yourselves lucky in that.
Frankly put, as it stands now the Corsairs have the largest choice in shieldbusters than any other faction. They also have superior shieldbusters that perfectly sync with their weaponry. The Corsairs are entitled to an advantage by having four shieldbusters to choose from when everyone else is restricted to a single one; The Debs. Right now the Corsairs have it the best in regards to shieldbusters. Be glad for what you have and stop trying to get even more.
' Wrote:According to in-game rumours and lore, Corsairs think everything not Corsair-made is inferior rubbish. They have the best ships, the best weapons and they would never, ever lower themselves to using non-Corsair tech.
The fact that they now use the Osiris notwithstanding (it's incredibly silly, but whatever), why would a red-blooded Corsair want to use inferior, foreign-made garbage like the Debilitator? For that matter, why would you want to fly Eagles when your Titans are the best damn very heavy fighters in the universe and everyone else's cheap junk can go to hell?
Dab, were you listening in on that chat last night? Because that's almost word for word the discussion we had about debs.
Actually, that same conversation applied to more than just one ship line and faction group. It wasn't just the Corsairs that got some 'loving' attention in the revised chart.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
Frankly I think it's a fairly trivial argument, and one I won't lose sleep over.
If we were having this argument AS WE SHOULD HAVE HAD 2 years ago, when Corsairs were sanctioned for using Tigershark Civillian light fighters after their own 2 options were hopelessly bugged or flawed...I might have cared.
Last mod, if you did use a light fighter, you had no appropreate guns to use; there was a massive gap in the Corsair guns cabinet between Class 7 and 8.
The mod designers have created guns to fill this gap, so I really couldn't care less about Civillian tech now.
A faction such as us should only use Civillian tech out of necessity. Years ago we HAD that necessity, and in my view, were wrongly punished for using civillian tech. Now the necessity is gone I couldn't care less.
In case things have changed since I last looked a long while back...Corsair guns projectile speed is not compatible with Debilitators. Back when we were trying to use tigersharks and diddn't have any Corsair guns to put on them, we had to resort to using a combination of Debilitators and Order guns.
As I Corsair, I might feel a little insecure having my entire weapons arsenal foreign-made.
In short, should all factions who are part of the Sirius economy have access to Civillian technology? Yes. Do I care particularly? No.
Quote:Despite their partial dependence on other organizations for food and resources, the Corsairs are known for their ship-building industry, and their advanced ship designs are feared across Sirius. Because of this, Corsairs are rarely if ever seen utilizing ships or equipment developed by anyone other than their own engineers; Corsair battle technology is part of the Corsairs' national identity, and most would be loathed to use anything else, viewing foreign ships and weaponry as inferior and unreliable.
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