Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such

[Highland Laddie]

From what I gather, the Anki isn't exactly the best of freighters if you're looking at fighting in it.

a) Not true; plenty of bombers have Novas to combat heavier targets regardless of skill.
That having been said, even snac bombers can fall to freighters.
b) Their loss. I've spent a decent amount of time in conn in my Grizzly and I've only once lost to a fighter.
c) But most traders aren't skilled. The vast, huge majority either doesn't have armor, doesn't have guns, doesn't have regens, or any of the above. That's the same fact that makes fighter piracy actually work.

Freighters are great exploration vessels, absolutely.

They don't have the same cargo space as small transports because they have 200 rather than 140 thruster speed, 395 rather than 350 cruise speed, can mount fighter weapons and mine droppers.
They are a totally different class of ship.

A) Okay, I'll concede that point. I'm used to flying a Challenger that can mount both, so I guess I forgot about the lighter bombers.

B) Okay..so you spend time in Conn with a freighter. Not much use as far as the RP or trading side of things, eh?

C) It might be a stretch to say most traders aren't skilled, but many probably don't mount extra armor because they want the space for cargo and would rather pay up or blow up if pirated, or they're just cheap.

As far as the cruise and thrust differences, I think that would make them a much more beneficial and widely used transport vessel if they had better cargo capacity. That's my point.

[Swallow]

Plus Swallow is working on a whole garage of mid-sized transports that should alleviate this problem. They might not make it in initially, but they'll be in the later betas (providing they're fully finished and submitted).

Meaning that we would have mid transports anyhow, that is my guarantee. Just let me finish my first university year, exams and so on.

I am going to replace imports (FF, Kujira, Ktrans, ect ect) as well as submit new ones for different factions and generic ones (generics, are obviously will be the priority no. 1 after imports).

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FL MOD(EL)MAKING: TOOLS, RESOURCES, TUTORIALS AND MY SHIPS (OLD)

I am on discord: Roal-Yr#5994, I don't log on forum more than a few times a year.

I am not making ships for FL anymore, I am making my own space game instead:
https://github.com/roalyr/GDTLancer
https://roal-yr.itch.io/gdtlancer
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5HQB...cdH45LZgjj

[Swallow]

(Except the horribly underpowered X-Shuttle)

It is not. Used to take down Camaras with X-Shuttle. Camara runs out of energy very fast, unlike X-Shuttle and Humbpack.

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FL MOD(EL)MAKING: TOOLS, RESOURCES, TUTORIALS AND MY SHIPS (OLD)

I am on discord: Roal-Yr#5994, I don't log on forum more than a few times a year.

I am not making ships for FL anymore, I am making my own space game instead:
https://github.com/roalyr/GDTLancer
https://roal-yr.itch.io/gdtlancer
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5HQB...cdH45LZgjj

[Karst]

B) Okay..so you spend time in Conn with a freighter. Not much use as far as the RP or trading side of things, eh?

Well wasn't your point that they aren't useful for anything other than roleplay? I'm just suggesting that they can be decent combat vessels as well.

As far as the cruise and thrust differences, I think that would make them a much more beneficial and widely used transport vessel if they had better cargo capacity. That's my point.

I don't know......I think they're fine as a combination of either entry-level trade ships, or alternative scout and combat ships. They don't really need a greater cargo capacity for either of those roles.

(Except the horribly underpowered X-Shuttle)

It is not. Used to take down Camaras with X-Shuttle. Camara runs out of energy very fast, unlike X-Shuttle and Humbpack.

Wut? Camara has a larger energy core. If it runs out of energy too fast, it can always mount Class 1 turrets. The X-Shuttle, on the other hand, can never mount Class 9 weapons.

In overall firepower, it is strictly inferior to many other freighters. With only three turrets, it cannot defend itself properly from more agile targets. And its Class 8 guns are weak.
The Camara has the advantage in firepower and energy at literally every angle.

The only reason it's as weak as it is, I suspect, is the unique torpedo mount. However, this is almost entirely useless.
MR and torpedoes are basically only useful against targets with lower agility......which in the X-Shuttle's case, is only gunboats (although some lighter models come very close) and anything larger.

Obviously, a freighter is at an extreme disadvantage anyway when fighting gunboats or larger combat ships, and against transports, it lacks a CD to stop them from escaping.

It also has poor turning speed and low armor for its class.

Basically, anything an X-Shuttle can do, other freighters can do better. It should have a dedicated CD slot, and/or class 9 gun mounts.

Look at a Grizzly, it has 8 forward guns/turrets, all of which are the equivalent of Class 9. And four Class two turrets.
The X-Shuttle has just 6 class 8 forward guns, and only three turrets to defend the rear.
Plus, less armor, agility, and repairs.

The X-Shuttle sucks.

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[Highland Laddie]

B) Okay..so you spend time in Conn with a freighter. Not much use as far as the RP or trading side of things, eh?

Well wasn't your point that they aren't useful for anything other than roleplay? I'm just suggesting that they can be decent combat vessels as well.

I guess what I was getting to is that, by your own example, you only really use your freighter for pvp in Conn, not out in the RP realm. Granted, I don't visit Liberty much, but when I do, I certainly don't see any lawfuls flying around in their well-armored Grizzlies while taking on pirates and Rogues. So, even if the Grizzly is as good a combat vessel as you say...ain't nobody flying it except those who are working towards bigger and better. Increasing the cargo space would help make those ships a keeper for a longer time, especially for pirates. Might be more appealing for pirates to fly around in freighters with 1-2k cargo capacity so they would actually have incentive to STEAL cargo instead of just using snubs and taking credits.

[Govedo13]

For me it is not only the amount of the transports but their stats.
Transport class could be so versatile - they could be with cruiser size and with freighter size, with a lot of cargo and with little cargo, with a lot of guns and with bad/little guns. Also due to the transport role you can add more cruise speed on some models and more impulse speed.
Most of the classic transports come in boring package, making 2-3 more specialized and weird transports with huge bonus sides and weaknesses at the same time would be nice, instead of that all weird transports were standardized in 4.86

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Syrus]

I see, I shouldn't have mentioned the freighters. I mentioned them just in a very short part of my post because it was obviously not intended to be about them mostly. And my suggestion was in regards to their transporting capabilities, not their fighting capabilites, which I know are already very decent on some of them. I wish for them to be balanced amoung the houses, foremost. I think it would be awesome to have ships like the Humpback or the Rhino be upped to be equal with other "MkII" freighters. But of course it would also be nice, if they were more usefull by having more cargo space on them.

Anyway...Back to what this was mainly about;
Good to hear that we are getting more 3-3.5k transports. Maybe then most of the already existing onces don't have to be changed.
I would still like to ask you to consider reviewing three of them:
First, the Albatross:
As I mentioned, it just should be on the same level of the Heron (Train). Since it has one turret less, maybe it could have more armor and/or higher agility. It has 4 cargo pods, just like the Heron, so please, give it 3000 cargo space.
Second, the Gull:
Two cargo pods. Could you please give it 1500 units of cargo space, instead of just 1000?
Third, the Big Dragon:
The name already says it: it's big. Too big for it's cargo size. If there are new 3-3.5k transports (for Kusari as well) incoming, please review this transport, either up its cargo hold size or down its overall size.

I ... and maybe other people as well ... would appreciate it, if at least these three changes would be considered.
Looking forward to seeing those new transports. It's not an urgent matter overall, but something to be considered for the future. The Gull and Albatross changes mentioned above shouldn't be too much work to implement though, maybe? :O


EDIT:
My suggestion for the Albatross:

Code:

Turn Rate:              ~33
Hit Points:         100'000
Power Core:          45'000
Recharge:             5'000
Bots/Bats:        400 / 400
Hold Size:            3'000
Price:        21'000'000 cr (without equip)

Almost the same as the Heron, just more armor, a bit smaller power core, but same recharge (same power core like for example the BWT has), costs 1 mio more and better turn rate.

Consider this about the armor:
Albatross:
95'000 + 400 (bots) * 600 (armor)
= 335'000
Heron:
... = 320'000
Not that much more, should still make a difference.
(The Firefly having 50 bots more on top of the 100k armor is actually a major difference.)

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[QuinnZai]

I must reply to this because as someone who has tested many of the transports and freighters. I feel the point Syrus makes is completely legit.
First of all, house transports. So you are going to just say, its alright that they suck compared to freelancer ones. Their will be more freelancer ones anyway? Please stop wasting cool looking ships. Please make them have some use because why buy a small transport that has less cargo and same agility as Firefly which has decent defense, agility and cargo all in one. I love these house ships so much but I dont want to use them if I can use a freelancer one more effectively.
Second, NPC fodder ships? Why? Most fighters, bombers and PTrans (That usually does the NPC cargo looting) can take them out easily enough. Dont waste good ships for a silly role like that.

All I can say is, please make the ships we have something people are encouraged to buy and use. Nanga Parbat, why buy a 1,8k Trans when you can buy a Firefly? I really would love to see a Nanga and the house transports sit at around 3k each. I hate seeing such good looking, interesting ships never being used due to "There are better things on that level"

I agree with what Syrus said on the transport changes and wish they would be implemented. Im tired of reverting to a Firefly whenever I want a Freelancer transport. Oh and by the way, the Big Dragon, is MASSIVE! Hahaha