Once you have escorts, bombers can't sit and snipe you at 2k range anymore.
So they need to get a bit near, to shoot the snac (here you can kill them). Escorts work, nots as killers, but support.
' Wrote:Change the rotational speed on capital primaries to something that can track small ships and caps will be able to defend themselves. That is pretty much all that needs to be done.
I can almost catch most bombers with my all primary load out on the Varyag at close range. They just turn so slow that it is hard to keep them collectively on-target.
Just yesterday, I in my gunboat, 1 fighter, 2 carrier, 1 cruizer, 1 assault cruizer ( to be honest, I m not shour what kind of ships were in fleet,
We saw 4 bombers in texas,
Fleet leader ordered us to attack bombers.
First of all, bombers with they speed would easy escape us, but they decided to fight.
In the beggining I managed to damage some of tham little and make 1 of tham busy in this fight, but later all of tham jumped on my back and shot me down, later I saw how they shot down everyone else 1 by 1.
My gunboat and 1 fighter was no use at all.
In the end, all 4 bombers were fine, but all fleet was down.
Even if I say that fleet was having bad pilots, and bombers were great pilots ( what I not can tell because I m not noob ), the fact that we not shot down even 1 bomber tell everythink by itself.
Situation like this happen often.
No idea do 4 VHF would get this same result, but I fell bad I could not shot at last 1 bomber in this fight.
' Wrote:Just yesterday, I in my gunboat, 1 fighter, 2 carrier, 1 cruizer, 1 assault cruizer
In the end, all 4 bombers were fine, but all fleet was down.
' Wrote:I had 13 escorting fighters.
About 5 of them were PvP aces.
There were three hostile bombers.
I got pwnt.
Both of you I refuse to believe you.
There are calital solaris turrets- with escort the bombers cannot keep the long range good enough and the most caps can dodge snacs from 2k.Indeed Solaris don't work fine on all Battleships but this will be fixed in 4.86
You have no experience in flying caps or your escorts have no experience in chasing bombers. Indeed the capital ship alone have little to no chance against bombers.But with some strategy and someone who commands the fleet with some brain that isn't just possible.
Solaris light cruisers are brutal against bombers. Both events prove it. Solaris Osiris is brutal agaist bombers or fighters- I had flown BS on the server for like 20 hours max. I am really bad cap pilot. I havent flown Osiris but Ku BS and Sarrrisa- on the Order/BHG/Nomad event I pwned everybody with the 8 solaris turrets on the Osiris.
2 days ago I was on my maffic- wanted to escort/mine a little for the fun. I saw single outcast to fight agaist 3 CRs and wanted to watch - 2 min later there were 5 101st outcasts and 3-4 indie ones the CR brought solaris Zephyr. The outcasts brought 3 Sortas and 1 or 2 GBs. After 15 min we lost no single ship and they lost all of their caps and 5 or 6 fighters. I knew that I am at maffic(bigger and slower then the nyx- a.k.a first target for the outcasts) and that I will have all on me I just arranged 2 fighters to cover my back and the solaris battleship to shoot the people that chase me. He took 3 or 4 101st fighters in the time that I lost like 60 bots.
It all depends on strategy. If you have 5 capital ships with anti- capital loadouts 4 bombers can kill you all one by one. LABC is useless ship in PvP don't use it.Use combined fleets. If you are in gunboat and have 4 bombers on you you should stay 500 m between 2 battleships with solaris or secondary turrets and only dodge till they both blow the bombers.
Capital armour above mark 6 help GBs to survive longer from the bombers.If the Battleships pilots were adequate enough to see that you in the GB are the target they could feed you with bats and bots- so you can survive long enough in order the others to kill the bombers.
You should pick one target in battle- always the weaker/the one who can go down faster then others- that's why it is more then obvious that the bombers would go for the GB first. It requires skill and organisation nothing more.
If you want capital ship don't fly it alone. Always pick mixed loadouts-I know that mixed loadout is not perfect but you have good chance to kill cap with it and small ships with it. In 4.86 you would need only 4 primaries and 2 heavy guns(motars/missle/pulse/razor) in order to kill other caps. There will be enough light slots to put anti- bomber weapons. Go to train with your friends.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I think there are two solutions to bomber/escort problem..
<strike>1. Bombers - less agility, more armor</strike> This would make them easy targets for capitals..
2. Fighters - higher gun projectile speed - This on other hand only helps escort and lone capitals will still suffer:)
One of those things would fix things.. I think 2 is better.. VHF can be excluded and these changed could be given to class 8, class 9 guns so LF, HF can use them and VHF if they want to lose some damage and get more speed
' Wrote:I think there are two solutions to bomber/escort problem..
1. Bombers - less agility, more armor
2. Fighters - higher gun projectile speed
One of those things would fix things.. I think 2 is better.. VHF can be excluded and these changed could be given to class 8, class 9 guns so LF, HF can use them and VHF if they want to lose some damage and get more speed
Speed shouldn't be much higher..
I agree with you, Bomber need less agility and more armor, they also need to be bigger but have freighter shield in exchange ( bigger so escort can take tham, but harder to keep balance again capitals ).
About option 2, I agree, fighters should have guns with highter projective speed but less damage in exchange, so far fighter is better anti capital unit in high number because of his dodging agility, however they are unable to hit bombers and fighters what dodge they shots, what kind of escort unit is fighter if it do alot better in shoting to capital ships than shoting to fighters and bombers in bigger battles.
Realy, in bigger battles, all fighters shot enemy capital ships because they know that shoting to fighters and bombers is waste of time.
And about you Govedo13, I understand it is hard to belive that 4 bombers beat entire fleet in no time, but it realy happen, quest-I, quest-II, quest-III, quest-V, they all took out my gunboat, and many other capital ships, I m shour there was 2 carriers and 1 fighter and 1 siege cruizer, but not shour what else ship was there.
It is true that fleet was very disorganized and that they all used anti capital set up.
Still, we did not took even 1 bomber.
I just try my best to be escort good escort navy gunboat, but still I not can do much again 4 bombers.
However, I salute every capital ship user what can fight off fighters and bombers, and I salute every fleet what cooperate good enogh to beat fighters and bombers in big battles.
If what you say is true, good work.
CommanderX it is not that I don't believe you - I believe you because I was in bomber swarms in Liberty killing liberty caps -it was rather sarcastic.Well I try to comment here in order to help to a new players like you and all that I said is true. I can feel the disappointment when you trade/mine 2 months in order to buy Capital-ships and get blasted in 5 min by two bombers.But you have to bear in mind that the ships here are fair PvP balanced not RP balanced- it means that it is not fair because you have a battleship to win against 3 or 4 bombers. I do believe that Battleship must be able to kill 2 bombers. Wait for 4.86 and look here. - the capitals will receive a nice set of new turret types and more point defence slots.
Try to practise more fights against all type of vessels. I remember when I first time was in big melee in bomber- against LNS-Avrora- there was a huge bounty on him- they killed me with primaries. I couldn't strafe and engine kill at that time....
Keep trying and don't get upset.
I don't believe that bombers need any change. Mind that bombers right now have little to no chance against fighters and GBs - 1 vs 1 and if bombers get bigger like rheinland heavy one they would be too easy target even for transports to hit. Bombers are supposed to be good against Capitalships and transports.There are several weapons that are devastating against bombers- razors- double razor a bomber with battle razor or curiser razor and the bomber is instant killed, the same with 3 razors on the GB. and one missile . Gunboat missile turrets works fine to remove bomber shields- you just need a little practise how to use them.
Light Fighters on the other side need a much more love- they would have faster cruise speed in 4.86. I guess that they could get cool anti-bomber weapons.
I would like to see light fighters with 900-1000 speed of the 8.33 refire guns with less dmg then fighters guns class 9 - it will be brutal against bombers and it is really easy to made it- there are few useless gun class slots like 5 or 7 for example.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:CommanderX it is not that I don't believe you - I believe you because I was in bomber swarms in Liberty killing liberty caps -it was rather sarcastic.Well I try to comment here in order to help to a new players like you and all that I said is true. I can feel the disappointment when you trade/mine 2 months in order to buy Capital-ships and get blasted in 5 min by two bombers.But you have to bear in mind that the ships here are fair PvP balanced not RP balanced- it means that it is not fair because you have a battleship to win against 3 or 4 bombers. I do believe that Battleship must be able to kill 2 bombers. Wait for 4.86 and look here. - the capitals will receive a nice set of new turret types and more point defence slots.
Try to practise more fights against all type of vessels. I remember when I first time was in big melee in bomber- against LNS-Avrora- there was a huge bounty on him- they killed me with primaries. I couldn't strafe and engine kill at that time....
Keep trying and don't get upset.
I don't believe that bombers need any change. Mind that bombers right now have little to no chance against fighters and GBs - 1 vs 1 and if bombers get bigger like rheinland heavy one they would be too easy target even for transports to hit. Bombers are supposed to be good against Capitalships and transports.There are several weapons that are devastating against bombers- razors- double razor a bomber with battle razor or curiser razor and the bomber is instant killed, the same with 3 razors on the GB. and one missile . Gunboat missile turrets works fine to remove bomber shields- you just need a little practise how to use them.
Light Fighters on the other side need a much more love- they would have faster cruise speed in 4.86. I guess that they could get cool anti-bomber weapons.
I would like to see light fighters with 900-1000 speed of the 8.33 refire guns with less dmg then fighters guns class 9 - it will be brutal against bombers and it is really easy to made it- there are few useless gun class slots like 5 or 7 for example.
First of all, I not have battleship, but I have gunboat, secound, I not complain that 3 - 4 bombers can beat me in no time, I complain because I m unable to protect other capital ships in big battles.
When I fight again 2 bombers, I have chance to win as long as they are not agile ones, but if I fight again 2 agile bombers, I will have trouble hitting tham.
I use 1 missile, it is good to take off bomber shield.
Fight again 2 VHF is fair for me ( well, if 2 VHF have codename guns and are skilled PvP fighters, I have no chance ).
As this topic is Escort Vs Bomber vs Capital ship.
As I say that what I complain is not my gunboat defense again fighters and bombers, I complain that I m unable to protect other capital ships from bombers and fighters good enogh.
And fighters are good again everythink in frontal fight, but in biger battles they can beat all capital ships but are unable to stop fighters and bombers from defeating capital ships.
My idea about fighters having special guns with 900-1000 speed of the 8.33 refire guns with less dmg is so fighters will have chance to become escort and anti fighter units.
For now no one take guns with 700 Speed and 8.333 refine.
If VHF with codename guns can be good in frontal fight and to fight capital ships in big battles, Heavy fighters and light fighters should have chance to be more anti fighter and anti bomber.
As for bomber, heavy ones are fine because escort can damage tham a bit, but light bombers, they are just to good sometime ( I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqao89TzQK4 what confirmed it ).