(12-16-2015, 07:36 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: You don't get it, the amount of 'interaction' lost is barely measurable, you have data to suggest how much interaction you lose? You're paranoid of a situation you might run into far more seldom than you will in reality.
Is it barely measurable?
I can prove the opposite.
I do not log for anything any more that has perma-cloaks.
I see Khara, and I do not log. Why? They are likely cloaked & I will not find them.
I see anything Wilde, I do not log. Why? They are likely cloaked & I will not find them.
That's a lot of situation which people would have perhaps logged for (e.g. to hunt them), but now you know that they will only engage if they want and you cannot influence it. Cloaks enable situations in which one group entirely has the power to interact or not. And this hurts interaction, if you take 1 interaction partner out completely.
Assuming that I am not the only one who treated perma-cloaky factions like this, I am pretty sure there is a solid argument that cloaks are bad for interaction.
I'm sure people say the same for me, and no offense but that's being the whiney one like I've been saying man. You don't think about the experience of the user as well. No one's making you 'not log' under such circumstances but yourselves. Heaven forbid you go back to taking risks. The only time I've ever seen a cloak CD used was on a K'hara player. Get cloaks or countermeasures for them, you know, try in game to solve it instead of bailing. How many changes were made to my character and I still fly, regardless of having a totally different set up than when I started it out, and losing monetary value. If you won't log because of fear, that's just sore losing. Avoiding a player and not logging are two different things. I guess I should say, show me players with b***s that lose gameplay over cloaks. I don't even play as any infinite cloakers, I just deal with it too. All you guys see are the worst case scenarios like it happens every day. All I know is, 99% of my encounters as a pirate would not have even happened if I hadn't had a cloak. Before that, most people would always make it to a base because they could, especially back a year or two ago, see someone coming from very far away. No one would hang around in an ore field once a red contact appeared and the head start they get always ruined any interaction ability. So where some lose, others gain. If you want to log out, that's just sad. If you avoid a player you know cloaks by taking an alternate route or avoiding them somehow, well that is also interaction. Not everything in the game is about banter. If you have to play differently because of dangers you forsee, that's the same as knowing a big gank squad of pirates is lurking along your route too. You can't ban people playing in large numbers, and if that kind of thing also deters people, do we say its bad for interaction? What about the people in the large group, its always fun for them. I can't pirate an IMG convoy all by myself, even with a cloak. So maybe convoys are bad for interaction, I don't get much out of your convoys now do I? Just because there is not always friendly vs foe interaction face to face does not mean there's none. Realistically who really minds factions shipping in convoys because they might not get to interact with them? Log anyways, take a risk, see what happens.
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Still think cloaks are pretty lame and harm gameplay far more than they help, but I must say, taking out a Khara cruiser because it didn't realise I had a disruptor was the height of satisfying.
I'd quite like to see the Intel factions get cloaks as part of their faction identity, as opposed to the current "Navy ID but slightly different" approach, perhaps as Peregrine suggested making a longer lasting cloak a perk/request for official factions? Despite the negative impacts of the cloaks, this may actually become a positive and at the very least allow the Intel factions to spy using tagged ships.
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(12-16-2015, 04:49 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Cloaks should never have been introduced.
Sums up my opinion pretty well, unfortunately. In their current form they add extremely little to the game, and I can't think of many ways that could be changes to make them a fun addition rather than an irritating means to avoid interaction.
Perhaps if cloaks were truly specialized ambush devices that didn't allow movement while cloaked or something would I advocate adding more of those things into the game.
(12-16-2015, 06:33 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Don't let them fool you. It is ok to spy cloaked. Not ok to use cloaked intel for sanctioning.
You've got things backwards, buddy. Hitting players with inRP consequences because you sat within chat distance cloaked and logged everything is the opposite of sportsmanship. Getting someone sanctioned because they're breaking the rules and they don't realize someone's watching on the other hand is perfectly fine.
@TheUnforgiven: You seem to assume that people do not log for cloakers because they are afraid. That's a misconception.
Actually, yes. I am "afraid", but not of the player, nor a fight ---- but of the very high chance that there will not be any encounter and trying to get one is a useless waste of my time.
What cloaks added in reality:
> less interaction
> /s "roleplay" combined with uncloak & insta kill
> a cheap running tool to avoid a blue, then restock and come back
> a nice thing to abuse by gate cloaking, etc.
Sorry, cloaks are bad. It's just like that.
And... I am out of here.
(12-17-2015, 06:36 PM)Hannibal Wrote: I eventually skipped the whole general discussion about cloaks and went into this specific case;
the rules prevent you to act on screenshots/Intel gathered while cloaked so what will be the point of this?
To my knowledge, there is no rule against it, it's just that it's a massive faux pas, and a lot of people will refuse the information because of how scummy it is.
In short: don't do it.
(12-17-2015, 06:53 PM)Project Lerdi Wrote: If you ask me, I'd rather leave it as it was in vanilla. It was only Nomads/ Wild thing. The Cloaks.
/agree
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