flak CD

[Ursus]

I've been doing some testing with various ways to shoot down incoming missiles and torpedoes. Flak turrets are easiest by a mile, with the ability to just mouse-over the projectile and shoot it down, while other types reuquire you to actually target the missile.

If you are using CD or another missile to shoot the incoming projectile, all you have to do is make it the current target, and the projectile lock-on will do the rest; it's faster and better to get the spinning reticle but its not completely necessary. If you are using guns, you can click-select the missle so it is the current target, the crosshairs will go to the center of the incoming missile, and when the white reticle is spinning you can use the auto-aim feature to shoot it down. In both cases, you have to unselect the enemy you are currently engaged with, select the projectile, and then reselect the enemy, during which time he's probably shooting at you, and preparing another missile, so it is very tedious.

On the other hand, the flak missile you only have to get the white reticle over the incoming projectile, and pull the trigger. You dont have to select the missile, just hover over it, and the flak auto-aim will do the rest.

It would be awesome if we could get the flak targeting system on platforms that are not battleships or battlecruisers. A simple mechanism would be to have a flak version of a CD launcher, since that could be used on everything from fighters to battlecruisers. However I'm not sure if the hover-to-aim mechanism is specific to the flak turret, or if its portable among launcher types. So, first question, is it even possible to make a flak CD launcher that uses the same aiming mechanism as the flak turret?

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[AeternusDoleo]

Flaks are essentially missiles without a locking system. They therefor are physically unable to lock on in the manner you suggest. The trick of flaks is that they do a fair amount of damage which blows up most ordinance in flight and have a strong "push" effect as well, which causes tracking missiles to lose their lock.

The push effect in a fighter is abusable however. Something on engine kill can push themselves well beyond the usual speed limit - which is why we don't have it implemented. It would need to be combined with a cruise disruptor to trigger an EK shutoff. Might be a bit much to have a large blast radius cruisedisruptor -combined- with a flak push effect. Then again, maybe it's a good idea, it'll allow fighters to snipe away incoming torpedos to battleships.

Will see what the balance guys think about this.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[ryoken]

Wow! I did not know it was you that J.D.(me) was helping with anti missile fire. LOL. But i also agree that a flak CD or even a flak missile of some type would be a great idea, and addition. Just think how much better a fighter escort could be against bomber's. They may actually be able to defend a cap or transport.

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[Ursus]

The push effect in a fighter is abusable however. Something on engine kill can push themselves well beyond the usual speed limit - which is why we don't have it implemented. It would need to be combined with a cruise disruptor to trigger an EK shutoff. Might be a bit much to have a large blast radius cruisedisruptor -combined- with a flak push effect. Then again, maybe it's a good idea, it'll allow fighters to snipe away incoming torpedos to battleships.

Will see what the balance guys think about this.

I made a flak CD and did some testing with it. From an offensive perspective it works REALLY well for setting off mines and missiles, and it also disorients the hell out of the other ship. But you give up the ability to stop the other ship from leaving. Basically its like the other fighter/bomber torpedos in that it's a fighting missile instead of an interceptor missile. From a defender perspective, it basically takes away your ability to use mines and missiles. But you can just leave if you need to, so whatever.

The only real problem with it is the default damage for battleship flak is pretty dang high. I killed some NPCs with just the flak CD, and even killed myself once when I was too close to the explosion damage. A flak CD would need to have the default damage reduced a whole bunch or else it would be used to boost shotgun loadouts. Other than that it works very well.

As to your concern, the ship doesnt get pushed very fast at all. It might be exploitable but I was not able to push myself over 100 m/s. Faster to just use thruster and EK, faster meaning top speed was greater AND quicker easier to reach top speed.

I also dinkered around with flak CM a little bit, but couldn't get it working like I wanted it too exactly. After thinking about it a while, it would probably be unbalanced if I got it working right, so I've given up on it.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Govedo13]

Hm tweak it to be really good one and add it to the LFs and HFs only- problem is still that snacs are not stoppable.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[jammi]

Hm tweak it to be really good one and add it to the LFs and HFs only- problem is still that snacs are not stoppable.

They're also shorter ranged, higher powered and lower damaged than Novas, meaning the enemy bomber spends more time within capital point-defence range.

That's the intended balance - you get distance, but an ammo limit and the potential to be intercepted, or unlimited ammo and a certain hit (if you aim it correctly) but shorter range.

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[Govedo13]

They're also shorter ranged, higher powered and lower damaged than Novas, meaning the enemy bomber spends more time within capital point-defence range.

Capital point-defence does not exist in 4.86
Razors are useless, battleship solaris is useless and only cruiser solaris works somehow.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[AeternusDoleo]

In other words, Govedo doesn't know how to aim with BS secondaries or BS solaris. I've found them to be quite effective personally. Only that MK2 version with the higher refire rate isn't as effective until the target gets to about 500m, but I suppose that's by design.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Govedo13]

BS secondaries or BS solaris. I've found them to be quite effective personally.

May be somehow magically I lost my aim and my ability while I was able to kill 3-5 snubs alone in solaris/razor/missile light/medium battleship in 4.85 then magically logged in 4.86 to find out that all of those guns does not work and are screwed by various ways. Magic I guess.
I am really curios if there is any good pilot using solaris or razors on battleships especially on the heavy ones even single one.
I would really appropriate video where one of our great balance people beats 2 good bottlenoses or one good cruiser pilot in heavy battleship By Design idiots get closer then 500m to battleships if we exclude 2 special ones- Osiris and BD BS because someone balanced them really bad giving them strafing instead of heavy gun slots.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[abysswolf]

flak are a form of counter measure anti air artillery how is possible to consider to add it to fighters?? ignorance about naval weaponry is ignorance.. -.-

whilei i agree to add it to things like gunboats and cruisers and even to traders it is very very stupid to add it to anything else than that

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you know what? im just goint to take this away before someone feels aluded... XDDDDDD