So hey, about the recent Zoner drama. Use it much?

[Thyrzul]

None can claim or demand anything nowadays without actually show balls in game, no matter official or not.

Sure, and we should just crap on the RP this server said to be all about, right?

---

[RedEclipse]

The restriction which was putted on Zoner ID wasn't RP based, but for balance. Why you think Zoners shouldn't dock at other bases? How they will get stuff from maintain themselves, trading? Zoners don't produce anything, except few things such as ships for Zoner purposes and for open market - BW technology. But still, all materials coming from house space.

They don't have basic things like food growth and water for basic survival, but they have the ability to build hundreds of fully-armed warships?

If the Zoners have their priorities THAT messed up, then they wouldn't even be alive and exist.

Either you're mistaken, or Zoners shouldn't even be in the game, because they would've all died out long ago from starvation/dehydration.

Um, take a look on Corsairs, perhaps?

Zoners don't build a tons of ships. Actually, inRP Zoners have a few of them and all are supposed to be deep space exploring vessels, aka pioneers. Cash coming from selling BW shipline.

As for 74 future, Phoenix would like to enforce a law within 74, no more POBs around jumpholes 15k, if someone wishes to construct pob in 74 - get approval first. And no more problems with ZA pobs in 74.

[Govedo13]

None can claim or demand anything nowadays without actually show balls in game, no matter official or not.

Sure, and we should just crap on the RP this server said to be all about, right?

Quite the opposite actually, do RP but with guns,numbers and organisation as I said.
Showing balls after 30-40 base modules are built shows that you lack organisation and numbers and have no right to show balls.
Also if Phoenix like to enforce anything- it is np- get the proper numbers that allow you to do so in game and go on- none stops you.

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Thyrzul]

Quite the opposite actually, do RP but with guns,numbers and organisation as I said.
Showing balls after 30-40 base modules are built shows that you lack organisation and numbers and have no right to show balls.

So crapton of effort put into in-game stuff is pretty much enough to justify going straight against the lore too, right? RP is not pew, numbers and organization, but doing so within the bounds of roleplay. Just because with some friends I grind my ass off to pull 4 core4 bases out of nothing and then capspam anybody I don't like won't grant me the right to just stomp all over pre-estabilished roleplay.

---

[Anaximander]

Bah Thyr, you speak of Disco as if it is a coherent, one-sided thing. Lore is - as we know - debatable. You can't say it's against Lore for ZA to build those bases, just because it is against what you want. You are too one-eyed.

Besides, what gave TAZ the right to "stomp all over pre-established roleplay" regarding the Cardamine-corridor? You use your arguments interchangeably whenever you see fit, notwithstanding that they contradict one another quite often.

In-game events > forum events, in-game reality > forum reality. The mod and the game is the focus, not self-made forum stories and forum lore. If you can't make anyone in-game do your bidding, you are not in command. If you can sit by and let 4 Core 4 bases be built against your will in your system, you are not in command even though you and your friends wrote some nice stories about how you are. That's Discovery for you, make the most of it and enjoy it.

[Madvillain]

In-game events > forum events, in-game reality > forum reality. The mod and the game is the focus, not self-made forum stories and forum lore. If you can't make anyone in-game do your bidding, you are not in command. If you can sit by and let 4 Core 4 bases be built against your will in your system, you are not in command even though you and your friends wrote some nice stories about how you are. That's Discovery for you, make the most of it and enjoy it.

This opinion is also debatable , though I sorta agree with the rest of your post.

---

Baila Morena | Toilet Trouble | Elder Presidente[TBH] | The Titan Combat Manual | Confession

[Govedo13]

But it is how it works, it could have worked better if there were some boundaries and rules of who can change what- devs, official factions and indies, but there are none. As my experience shows Devs do support official faction RolePlay if it is reasonable and well documented in both in-game and in forum. For reference now you can go and check this 2 years old topic of mine:

http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...t=benefits


So since the such in-game actions does not break the rules people can make whatever they want.
People that claim things and meanwhile cannot control and force things in-game in their ZOI should have no rights- in RP and in-game as well.
Making factions attractive so they have the in-game tools: guns, numbers and organisation is other thing. Double the faction minimum requirement on-line time, give them some bonuses in exchange-simple and efficient solution for all of yours 100 pages ZA ( Indians/whatever indie group ) trouble.
If you disagree -np the indies are anyway 10 to 1 compared to factions and by its actions admins and devs support the factions ruining in favour of the indies.
Since I does not judge the players by their forum stuff or by their status I think that ZA faction should receive the same status and respect as the other zoner official/big groups if they manage to force their RP over other groups.

So I am rather amused why the faction players does not bark against the system that make them weak, but they bark how bad is ZA.

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Thyrzul]

Bah Thyr, you speak of Disco as if it is a coherent, one-sided thing. Lore is - as we know - debatable. You can't say it's against Lore for ZA to build those bases, just because it is against what you want. You are too one-eyed.

I'm not saying it is against Lore for ZA to build bases, rather it is against Lore for a faction claiming to be Zoners, using Zoner ID to exploit said bases to build up a militaristic dictatorship, and survive against all odds just because a brand new feature of gameplay without anything roleplay related attached to it and without proper balance allows them to go against the general Zoner Lore. In case you haven't noticed, it is not against what I want, it is against what a big portion of this community considers to be the Zoner Way.

What I find hypocritical is that you tend to forget the important details and then call me "too one-eyed".

Besides, what gave TAZ the right to "stomp all over pre-established roleplay" regarding the Cardamine-corridor? You use your arguments interchangeably whenever you see fit, notwithstanding that they contradict one another quite often.

And again, you ignore the relevant details so you can compare things otherwise incomparable whenever you see fit, ignoring that your argument fails to have an unshakable basis once said details are being revealed. We have already discussed several times the differences between the two cases, if you keep ignoring my points instead of countering them with valid reasoning then I cannot help you.

In-game events > forum events, in-game reality > forum reality. The mod and the game is the focus, not self-made forum stories and forum lore. If you can't make anyone in-game do your bidding, you are not in command. If you can sit by and let 4 Core 4 bases be built against your will in your system, you are not in command even though you and your friends wrote some nice stories about how you are. That's Discovery for you, make the most of it and enjoy it.

Guess what, in the end, what's written and been conducted on the forums will later shape in-game stuff in the next versions. Most of it written by the devs, a few things official factions can add too, but while in-game actions can initiate stuff, improvise events, relations, actions and reactions, things on the greater scale happen on the forums. Communications, agreements, treaties only happen in-game if the relevant parties have already agreed upon a date and time and a location to meet, otherwise all go on the forums. What you are trying to say is that because some faction is not represented well in-game, they should not have the authority and power they were given by lore. Guess what, regardless how crappy the GRN activity is, the Royal Navy will conquer Leeds in the next version. You can ignore the importance of forum-based stuff, but that won't make them not happened.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. What in-game events have the most probability to have an impact on a larger scale of roleplay and/or loreplay, are pre-organized events, the organization of which also happen on forums.

@Govedo

That 2 yr old thread of yours is interesting, had a peek at the first post, mostly stuff what still apply.

It's not necessarily the system's fault how ZA (ab)used the bases, there is no precedent for such, however I agree too that the system has to change. Rebalance is impossible, regulations are required.

And it is understandable why your opinion differ from the rest when you ignore all their forum stuff. Neither would I find them too bad if I would ignore all the crap they have thrown around in tons of comms already.

---

[Anaximander]

I'm not saying it is against Lore for ZA to build bases, rather it is against Lore for a faction claiming to be Zoners, using Zoner ID to exploit said bases to build up a militaristic dictatorship, and survive against all odds just because a brand new feature of gameplay without anything roleplay related attached to it and without proper balance allows them to go against the general Zoner Lore. In case you haven't noticed, it is not against what I want, it is against what a big portion of this community considers to be the Zoner Way.

Zoners have claimed all sorts of things throughout the years, some with success and some without. When you say "general Zoner Lore" and "the Zoner Way" as if those are things set in stone, you cannot be more wrong.

What I find hypocritical is that you tend to forget the important details and then call me "too one-eyed".

But you are.

And again, you ignore the relevant details so you can compare things otherwise incomparable whenever you see fit, ignoring that your argument fails to have an unshakable basis once said details are being revealed. We have already discussed several times the differences between the two cases, if you keep ignoring my points instead of countering them with valid reasoning then I cannot help you.

I don't ignore your points, I just strongly disagree. You keep clinging to your PoV as if it is the only legitimate one, when it isn't.

What you are trying to say is that because some faction is not represented well in-game, they should not have the authority and power they were given by lore.

That is exactly what I am saying, they should let another faction within the ID step up to the plate if they can't handle it themselves. No more Zombie factions, but fresh and vibrant ones instead.

Guess what, regardless how crappy the GRN activity is, the Royal Navy will conquer Leeds in the next version.

This is however not what I am saying. I'm saying if theoretically GRN| couldn't live up to their duties, they should pass on the torch. If Phoenix or whoever claims ownership of O-74 can't enforce their own rule, they should pass it on to ZA.

You can ignore the importance of forum-based stuff, but that won't make them not happened.

When I say in-game stuff trumps forum stuff, I mean that if you for instance write a brilliant story about how you are the meanest Fighter Ace in all of Sirius but you suck at PVP, you can't expect people to let the "forum truth" take precedence and intentionally lose to you. If you say a system is yours, but someone else manages to build and maintain 4 Core 4 bases against your will, the system wasn't really yours at all; and you should treat it as an actual roleplay event rather than default to "your rp is wrong, check the forum, we're the bosses". So you can ignore in-game events, but that doesn't mean they haven't happened.

FYI: On 2 different Corsair characters I've been shooting that base, helping [TBH] kill some respawning ZA supply transports (with mortars, yay) and generally done my best to pirate ZA + friends blind when I haven't had the chance to shoot at them. One of my characters do it out of loyalty to the Elders and the Sails leadership, the other one has done it simply out of greed and lust for war; had he been offered some credits to shoot at that AI base he'd be all in; and he would also be inclined to seek vengeance if an Elder showed and called him "infected" (whereas the first character would have thrown his Titan at ten Juggernauts if an Elder had asked him to).

I think both paths are viable, we're roleplaying a dynamic universe; and rather than cling to our own personal ideas of the structures and "how it's supposed to be" people should just stick to what's actually happening with the ZA roleplay and layoff the forum oorp witch hunt. Take it as a challenge and roll with it.

[Haste]

If you say a system is yours, but someone else manages to build and maintain 4 Core 4 bases against your will, the system wasn't really yours at all

You're forgetting here that core 4 bases being as tough as they are now with no actual way to bring them down (save for 24/7 guard duty, which I don't think any faction is capable of doing) is a very out-of-roleplay thing. Have you seen the things? They're barely the size of a Cruiser, yet they can tank forty-odd battleships for hours on end*.

I understand the out of roleplay reasoning for bases being as sturdy as they are (and I don't think they should get an easy "throw battleships at them" solution), but it shouldn't be used by a faction in roleplay to act more powerful than they are.

*) The server unfortunately can't, which leads to core 4 effectively being "invincible".

---