Talk:Altoran Empire

Incubi were engineered by the Nomads in the last part of the 8th century AS to possess humans, it's unlikely that they made use of them earlier to "hijack" a similar but different civilization. And I can see it's in many ways an import from Stargate anyway. Still, you're raising a good point. Try and talk with the other guys in the Nomad factions, an exploration of Wild mini-societies in Drake, Altair and Tekagi's Arch and the mentality of infectees, what they think of themselves and what they do, would work far better to give us an insight into what a Nomad-infected human civilization look like. I mean, we have it under our noses anyway. --Altzek (talk) 12:58, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

My thought was that nomads could have engineered their incubi already much earlier. We are talking about an ancient and highly advanced alien race after all. And because nomads were also present in Sol, it is not that far off that other civilizations could have met them too. While the altoran incubus is adapted to a different physiology, i could imagine possible incompatibilities with the human physiology. It would also have its strengths and weaknesses. We currently lack of a proper "nomad state". And infecting a Sirian house is something nobody want to do, me including. Hence i created a new one with different naming scheme that is not reminding at something from earth. It isn't my intention to import Stargate or any other series. In general i just like the look of some actors and found Nirrti fitting most as a char of an hostile foreign civilization like this one. Considering the war-plagued history i have in mind and how versatile the mentality of some nomads can be, it makes the most sense for me to have a government consisting of several infected lords spread across the systems, where they reign over their population in their own personal way. Also because that sort of thing doesn't exist in disco so far. I especially like the idea of a new threat to Sirius that is forcing all humans to lay down their internal conflicts and cooperate against the aliens. If this idea is finding support, i look forward to invest more time. Everyone is welcome in the development. --SkyNet (talk) 10:07, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Nobody talked about infecting an entire House, that's unfeasible before even being unappealing, I'm talking about exploring what's going on on Wild bases like Tekagi's Arch, Valhalla Shipyard or Bottrop Depot. What do the infectees do in their spare time? Do they love, hate, make children, crap, piss and fart like everyone else or do they stand there the whole time until they're sent to the ships to pretend they're officers of regular human navies? What do they think of themselves? What do they think of humanity? What do they think of their spot in the universe? Etc etc. In other words, how do their societies work, if they have one, and what do they believe in? And the threat you're talking about, the one that's supposed to make all humans forget their differences to cooperate against the aliens, is called "the Nomads", and so far the idea of putting aside their differences to fight them hasn't catched on yet. It can't, if they would they would lay waste to Dur-Shurrikun and every other Nomad base and there would be no Nomads. Goa'uld expies (and come on, they are so. They're called "System Lords", they're probably the only infectees ruling over a normal population, as dictators of sort if I had to guess, they're worshipped as deities and by the way we're probably overflowing with Nomad-worshipping groups, etc), an entire civilization of infectees, are just redundant for this narrative task. --Altzek (talk) 22:45, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

This actually looks pretty cool. However, it immediately gave me Samarran Raiders vibes. A completely outside-context civilization nobody knew existed coming in to start shooting stuff resembles Gallia, so this alien invasion being the latest big scary threat would just replace them as the big scary threat out of nowhere to conquer Sirius, but this one is openly genocidal from the outset. Speaking of genocidal mentalities, aren't the Noms still engaged in their campaign of exterminating everything that isn't them? A society subverted by Noms would probably dismantle all its defenses at the urging of its infected leaders because its "Benefactors from the Stars" would safeguard it better than their own technology ever could, whereupon orbital bombardment would ensue and so would end a civilization that would dare lay claim to even a single mote of dust that is part of the birthright of the Peaceful Beloved. --Paladin (talk) 02:59, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

@Altzek Ofc and while you dig through the wiki you will also notice:

- Daam K'Vosh = Ancients (also known as gate builders - how fitting)

- Das Wilde = Goa'uld

- Nomad Power Cell = Zero Point Module

- The Commune/The Oracles = Ori

- Gammu AI = Replicators

- Nomad City = Atlantis

- Valhalla One = 'mericans finding fancy alien things and bring them to "Cheyenne"... mountain? C'mon. If all this isn't a gigantic Stargate import. And don't forget the numerous Jack O'Neills inside LN. The list could be continued. Seriously, Freelancer is full of this stuff. And with some fantasy you find even more similarities in other series and movies. I could't find a single humanoid race here that isn't from earth however.

@Paladin I don't think the nomads are "racists" if that's what you mean. In fact i could even imagine Altor consists of several "assimilated" civilizations. Nomads are just the bad guys of the universe, hunting and killing for their own pleasure. The fact that nomads attacked earth or tried to destroy the Sirius collonies in a huge war, is leading to this assumption. Or maybe they just hate overpopulation and our methods in exploiting natural resources. Maybe they were much longer amongst us than we initially thought, just in a different form, and were even responsible for the War of Sol breaking out. Because the existence of wild agents or nomads themselves wasn't known to anyone at this point. Known is however that they try to exterminate humanity because of humans still plundering Daam K'Vosh ruins like Valhalla One and try to adapt their technology. And nomads clearly make use of human authorities to subvert the human population. So it can't be different in other parts of the galaxy, where life can also evolve. The difference to Samarran Raiders would be that Altor already reached a state the Commune is trying to implement in whole Sirius. The war machinery would also look completely different. --SkyNet (talk) 21:58, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

If you think the alien elements in Freelancer and Disco are anywhere close to Stargate's, then you really haven't paid attention, you're drawing parallels where there aren't just to prove that these guys aren't expies. But let's put this aside for a moment, you say that there are no humanoid aliens. The question here is: do we need them, when the intended role is redundant to at least a couple Wild factions we already have? I will indulge your idea for a moment and give you some elements (which I personally find better than this) to work with. If you want to know what would a Nomad-ruled human society look like, I suggest you look at Chris Todd's design document for the Nomads, here. In Disco it's hard to figure out what the hell the Nomads want but back at Digital Anvil (where the concept of the Nomads was limited to the worms. The other "castes" and I think even the whole Mindshare thing were added as a concept by Disco loremakers) the idea was that the Nomads would have used men (well, the leftovers from the inter-colonial war they would have triggered from behind the scenes) to inherit the civilization of the Daam K'vosh since we had already done the bulk of the work decoding and replicating the technology that was intended for them, with the implication that to a certain extent the Daam K'vosh were at least humanoid like us. It would make sense too, things like the Proteus Tome indicate that they had a written language and that's stuff you can only come up with when you have hands and opposable thumbs you can use to actually write, things that they could acquire were they to "wear" us.

So here's my suggestion: rather than coming up with a redundant alien species, have elements of the Wild (not necessarily a formal faction, let's call it a cultural movement of some sort, existing purely inRP and which can be represented by some good stuff in Stories and Biographies. I think you also have an infectee character so that's a start) "revive" bits and pieces of half-remembered and half-known Daam K'vosh culture (in limited form because most of the ruins showing what they're like lie outside of their reach) in an attempt to become closer to their "fathers". If you think that's weird, consider that in a way they're already imitating us. They have learned emotions that they couldn't conceive before, some degree of individuality without shaking the stability of their collective consciousness, hell they replicated trade lanes in Omicron Iota (stuff that was meant for them but that we copied first). It could be that the Nomads already plan to become us to some extent in order to become like their creators and as their creators intended, and this sort of larping as their creators could be part of it. Note that I'm in no Nomad faction so if you're taking these rambling words seriously you may want to talk about this with Huggie or whoever's in charge of Nom lore. --Altzek (talk) 01:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)