Admin Notice: Factions

[AshHill07]

It would be nice to have to do a little less work.
But the issue comes again.
Are the police equipt well enough to deal with the average pirate alone?
Because that question really depends on the house these days.

And before someone says "they can ask navy for help" what if there are none available?
Your then pushing them into a special area of "only can be stopped if Police AND Navy are on".
If its just 1 or the other then they can pretty much do what they like.
Cops can't stop em, not enough power.
Navy can't stop em, not allowed to.

If you can get it to work though, by all means.
I mean I already admited it'd make my job easier.
Just might make the pirates / smugglers jobs easier too ...

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\\ CDR David Roberts \\ CAPT Steven Eversman \\ VADM Ash Hill // RDML Chris Murray // CDR Mick Connors //
\\ SFC| Patrol-7 \\ SFC| LNS-California \\ SFC| LNT-Century // SFC| LNS-San.Francisco // SFC| Patrol-5 //

[Charcoal]

It would be nice to have to do a little less work.
But the issue comes again.
Are the police equipt well enough to deal with the average pirate alone?
Because that question really depends on the house these days.

And before someone says "they can ask navy for help" what if there are none available?
Your then pushing them into a special area of "only can be stopped if Police AND Navy are on".
If its just 1 or the other then they can pretty much do what they like.
Cops can't stop em, not enough power.
Navy can't stop em, not allowed to.

If you can get it to work though, by all means.
I mean I already admited it'd make my job easier.
Just might make the pirates / smugglers jobs easier too ...

A valid point.

I haven't checked the police ID in an while, but is there anything written in the ID that would prevent the use of navy toys rules wise?

[SparkyRailgun]

Yeah um independent ID's had waaaaaay less restrictions 2+ years ago and official factions weren't dying out en masse back then like they are today.

If you're implying the mindset and dynamic of Discovery is the same right now as it was two or more years ago I'm going to go ahead and ignore the rest of your post, because that's downright absurd.

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[Quorg]

Yeah um independent ID's had waaaaaay less restrictions 2+ years ago and official factions weren't dying out en masse back then like they are today.

If you're implying the mindset and dynamic of Discovery is the same right now as it was two or more years ago I'm going to go ahead and ignore the rest of your post, because that's downright absurd.

The mindset and dynamic has changed. It's gotten worse and that's why the factions and the server are dying.

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ATTENTION SMUGGLERS
The Midnight Express: A Slaver <strike>who doesn't completely realize what he's doing.</strike> (video)

Quorg, you're officially a moron.

...mongs like Quorg being like a malignant little cancer...

Way to be useless, Quorg.

[Gentlefood]

But the issue comes again.
Are the police equipt well enough to deal with the average pirate alone?
Because that question really depends on the house these days.

And before someone says "they can ask navy for help" what if there are none available?
Your then pushing them into a special area of "only can be stopped if Police AND Navy are on".
If its just 1 or the other then they can pretty much do what they like.
Cops can't stop em, not enough power.
Navy can't stop em, not allowed to.

I'm going to quote this for all the truth there is. Look at Rheinland. Its most popular unlawful faction can use battleships.

The -few- unlawful factions that don't have access to at least cruisers are extremely unpopular. And even those unpopular factions that have some members -can- use cruisers.

At what point does the police stop being the police and start being the military? Its silly. Either the police stick to their inRP ships and gear and get outgunned by -every single unlawful in existence-. Or they use the military gear and become the Military Part Two.

Its a conundrum because I like the police and their roleplay is unique enough that it warrants a separate ID. Yet, the way the server has developed has made it so the police factions are sidelined in terms of development and equipment. Completely out developed by the unlawfuls they're supposed to be able to fight. Catching a smuggler is more of a treat rather than the norm because of the whole metagaming aspect of faction ID versus unlabeled smuggler ship.

[HuggieSunrise]

heres my idea. let it all fall down. until they have to figure out a new faction system that promotes good things like fun and candy.

November is a big test taking time and people are going to be busy at home this time of year to even take note of faction time now is silly.

[Madvillain]

Right now there is no reason to join faction.. if you can do all as indie.. and even don't care what faction tells you.

That's pretty much it.

On the other hand giving an absolute, total control over factions to official factions is something I definitely do not want to see. Some of the current, new faction leaders just scare the hell out of me with their inexistant capabilities of leadership.

When on a regular basis the most active faction players are threatened to be kicked out from the faction just because they didn't agree with the faction leader on a totally irrelevant matter, I certainly wouldn't, ever want to see this extended to the whole playerbase of a faction.

That's why faction leaders should be under more supervision.
If a couple of bad faction leaders manage to kill off entire houses activity,
they should be punished , easy as that.
Many people squeezed in that faction leader spot , and once there , don't do anything productive at all.

4.4 Administrators reserve the right to limit recruiting for certain official player factions for a certain period of time to keep server factions balanced.

This rule could be enforced if seen that one faction has a huge growth on the expense of other factions dying.

4.7 Official player factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. This authority applies in forums and in-game, and applies to player faction diplomacy, and strategic and tactical direction. However, exercise of that authority, on the forums and in game, is restricted to official faction members with the rank of the official faction leader and one rank below him/her. The authority may be exercised through the use of in-game in-RP orders, which, if not obeyed, can result in in-game in-RP consequences (arrest, court martial, and even "lethal" force in extreme circumstances). Official player factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.

With this authority comes great responsibility.
A responsibility some leaders can't handle.
Instead of removing the responsibility , remove the horsepoo leaders and if that doesn't help , revoke the factions official status.

4.10 Official player factions may request that the reputation of a player's ship be changed to hostile with respect to their NPC faction.

Remove the ''with respect to their NPC faction'' part.
It makes totally no sense , and can lead to extremely frustrating situations, where people make a indie character of the same ID as the official faction with the only intention being to undermine official authority, and trolling around.
In it's current state, it makes rule 4.7 worthless.

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Baila Morena | Toilet Trouble | Elder Presidente[TBH] | The Titan Combat Manual | Confession

[mwerte]

How about removing policing powers from Military IDs?

That was tried at one point. There weren't enough police ID'd players around to actually catch smugglers, and smugglers were just ignoring military ID'd players and saying "//you can't touch me". It was absurd and abused.

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[AeternusDoleo]

How about removing policing powers from Military IDs?

Requires: Police faction ZoI needs to be expanded to include the borderworlds of the houses - traditionally the Navies patrol these to hunt for criminals, but if those can't hit smugglers, and the Police ZoI is not included in it, then smugglers have a rule based immunity in those areas (which technically is correct - systems not under house law have no contraband restrictions).
Not a bad thing, but the only reason to play military over police in that case, is to use battleboats.

As for this whole poohah about factions dying: If there's no interest to play in organised factions anymore, why try to force people into that? If the playerbase prefers to do things outside a faction for the moment, so be it. New playerfactions can form once there's sufficient people to want to do so.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Tunicle]

.........
This rule could be enforced if

At present, no it could not be enforced, people will just fly outside of faction

4.7 Official player factions have authority over players of the same ..................

Only if the non-official player allows it, if you play on the server it is obvious that this RP rarely happens. Spend an hour in New York you will see countless non-official ignoring officials. Often watching the macho outlaw sitting outside Manhattan mouthing off because sensible RP and respect for authority is virtually non-existent.

With this authority comes great responsibility.

Responsibility but virtually no way of fulfilling it without spending all day filing reports (how many per day?) and hoping admin can do something.

But even then that is not the right approach. Players need to take responsibility for their actions and be accountable id being stupid. Your line of argument is "it is the responsibility of someone else ", no it is the responsibility of all.