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All I'm going to say so I don't make Lyth explode into a pile of raging babies is that you should learn what roleplay is, Nemo.

I might aswell RP that I'm the king of the Universe. Am I the king of the Universe? No. And you don't have to act like I am.

This has been a problem for a long time and it's starting to annoy me beyond the normal meaning of the word.
(06-30-2015, 03:09 AM)Freedom Phantom Wrote: [ -> ]All I'm going to say so I don't make Lyth explode into a pile of raging babies is that you should learn what roleplay is, Nemo.

I might aswell RP that I'm the king of the Universe. Am I the king of the Universe? No. And you don't have to act like I am.

This has been a problem for a long time and it's starting to annoy me beyond the normal meaning of the word.

I'm just pointing out that pausing for a moment might help things go a little smoother
We
(06-30-2015, 03:00 AM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: [ -> ]Overall: While I get your lore of "controlling" delta, your laws are terribly unspecific of what "control" means. I would like to suggest that you further subdivide your control listing to Full Control and Partial Control, mainly because while I enjoy watching the Core act like its tough as nails, y'all are picking on a Zoner outside of a Freeport, not even bothering to contend with Yaren Base, it makes me feel, personally as a player, that your group is incapable of doing anything besides pick on a group that has few options of ensuring its laws are complied with.

I'd say our law writeup is sound as it states the three systems we regulate. For actual specifics of influence you'll have to refer to lore. Core does pretty much dominate Omicron Delta, with the exception of the dwindling Corsair influence at Yaren. When there's something to pick on at Yaren, we'll go an pick on it. Most activity tends to be drawn to the Freeport however, which happens to be at the center of the system.
Which includes Corsair players.
In regards to how we treat Zoners, unless they have nomadic materials (which is what that players group seems very fond of doing), we'll treat them like normal civilians.

In regards to Freeport laws, for the sake of fun gameplay they're not something we fuss over. No one fusses over them for that reason. Many times Core could have reported people for breaking Freeport laws, as could many do with us. All sides refrain from doing this for the sake of good gameplay.

If CoF want to issue fines then sure go ahead and we'll just pay them. If CoF can be contempt and get off the backs of people for the sake of better gameplay then that's something I can roll with.



In terms of individual feedback, if Holt wants to respond to that he can feel free.
Lyth, I think the writeup is way too full of holes. Yes, I know when you try to make things look better; you'll have to apply paint to areas that are a little rough, and that the paint might be in a slightly different tone, but still:

Quote:What had started as a group of Hunters taking elite bounty hunting contracts in the Omicrons against the Outcasts and the Corsairs, had evolved into something much more.

How? What? Why? All the important things are missing.

Quote:under the guise that the BHG Core were the 'Protectors of Humanity' - true Paladins of Sirius, trying to protect it from the hostile threats in the Edge Worlds and establish peace by pacifying the Omicrons.

I suppose all the infected BHG Core stuff has been retconned? Or not? Moreover, regarding this quest: If Core is a fascist faction, and if that is what at heart sets them apart from the Order, shouldn't you just flesh that out? What is the Core brand of 'peace'? Seeing that they risk lives and spend copious amounts of credits (from the magical deep Omicron money tree the Zoners discovered first) on research and war machinery, it suggests that 'peace' in the Omicrons is something very specific - why else would you go through such an ordeal? What world order are they trying to establish out in the Omicrons? Essentially: Who the hell are the Core and why should anyone care?

Quote:The Council had always favoured the BHG Core above the standard Bounty Hunters Guild and was the organization that took in all the funds. Whereas the BHG Core were noble Paladins simply trying to eradicate evil in their conquest, the general image of the BHG was that they were petty criminals working for the Guild simply because they had no other option.

What?


Quote:They were dragged from their prisons and thrust into the Bounty Hunting profession as part of their reformation, however this often did not make them forget their previous criminal habits.

What? You know full well that there's just a handful of rumours and infocards mentioning how some criminals turned into Hunters. It's in no way the norm; it wasn't in old BHG| and it isn't in new BHG| either, even though current leadership seem to prefer us to make ex con characters and take bribes from our targets rather than shoot them. I don't think BHG should be fashioned by Core in this way, this document should solely be about the Core and not make any conclusions on behalf of the BHG.

Quote:Such an image would not fit for the agenda which The Guild Council had in mind. It wouldn't draw in more well trained recruits, it wouldn't benefit their diplomacy and it wouldn't gather support for their cause.

And what agenda is this? You talk about Core viewing themselves as noble paladins contrary to the dirty dirty hunters, but then there's the shady Ouroboros or whatever plot device thing, the extreme zealousness with which Core enforces their laws, their fascist strive for order and "pacification of the omicrons". If a Core character sees himself as a "noble paladin" when he guns down an unarmed Zoner he must either be stark raving mad or heavily manipulated/brainwashed. Or is he just pretending to be a noble paladin, and if so what is his sinister motive precisely? It's so bloody random...

-------------------------------

That's where I stopped reading. I still don't have a fucking clue what The Core is doing in the Omicrons, where they got their Capital ships and technology from, or how they couped the BHG and APM.


I think its problematic to leave a document like this that deals with two NPC factions in the hands of one person / one faction, just because there's no current official BHG faction and invisible leadership. It's counter-productive to the mod overall.

-------------------------------

Long story short: I think Core has what it takes be a great player faction. A skype clan with a theme. However the Vanilla material is of infinitely higher quality than the player additions. When players try to bridge gaps or somehow draw some legitimacy for their own projects by using Vanilla factions and lore, they run the risk of damaging the original lore. I think that is what Core is doing - you are taking something pretty bad (player created BHG Core faction), and in an attempt to make it a little better; you are doing damage to something that is and always have been of infinitely higher quality (BHG created and fleshed out by Digital Anvil / Chris Roberts).

Why not just scratch Core or be a little bit more humble in your faction description, to the point where you don't have to coup and gimp both APM and the BHG| to be succesful?

Why not set out to draft a document with absolutely 0 conflict between BHG and Core regarding the APM split? It is very possible to do so without taking away from either faction. If Jammi and other responsible people have really had an influence on this document, I don't understand why they didn't help you a little more with that specifically, with the overall benefit of the mod in mind.


EDIT: No, I won't let this go Big Grin If the faction write-up had been so absolutely amazing that BHG could go take a hike, I wouldn't care if Core encroached on BHG stuff. On the same note, I wouldn't care how bad the write-up is if Core stayed away from BHG and all that was and is BHG's. It's when Core oversteps those limits it becomes a problem, and that seems to be the only direction you are interested in taking Core in: Power-grab or nothing, and I think it's irresponsible that you are gunning for that just because you can.

EDIT 2: I have a bunch of ideas if you want input to ways you could craft your faction to actually make it interesting, relevant and unique, without having to steal from other factions.
Can you maybe state once more ( or link to a satisfactory explanation that has already been given ) ... why exactly the old BHG core lore was abandoned?

All in all - the old Core lore by Igiss explained things much better and had a lot less holes in it. .. It did put more limitations on the expression of reasonable roleplay of the Core in place. ( as in - it said exactly and very precisely what the core was after and how the core operated )

RP progress might not be bad - but it does sound quite a lot unilateral sometimes... like

- decided that dabadoru is much more than just its original intent - which is a small supply depot
- power and size of the fleet to enforce a sort of law
- plans ( no idea if they are still up to date, realized or abandoned ) about an outpost/part colonization of a delta planet

Now i do not know how multilateral (and by that i don t mean chats with devs - but chats and agreements with other factions that have business in the area) those claims have been - hence asking for sources.

to close here - personally, i greatly prefer the old lore that Igiss had written up for the Core. It made them kind of special - and much more than yet another mindless thug faction that is based on firepower to oppress or achieve their goals.
It was much more a political faction with strong ties to unethical research under black ops liberty cover. (opposed to the civilian backed Order that had just gained a huge political and popularity boast at the end of the nomad wars)
(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Lyth, I think the writeup is way too full of holes. Yes, I know when you try to make things look better; you'll have to apply paint to areas that are a little rough, and that the paint might be in a slightly different tone, but still:

Quote:What had started as a group of Hunters taking elite bounty hunting contracts in the Omicrons against the Outcasts and the Corsairs, had evolved into something much more.

How? What? Why? All the important things are missing.
How: launching very small raids against Corsairs in the Edge Worlds.
What: taking elite bounty hunting contracts in the Omicrons against the Outcasts and the Corsairs.
Why: money.

It seems self-explanatory I would say.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:under the guise that the BHG Core were the 'Protectors of Humanity' - true Paladins of Sirius, trying to protect it from the hostile threats in the Edge Worlds and establish peace by pacifying the Omicrons.

I suppose all the infected BHG Core stuff has been retconned? Or not?
Nope, going to possibly include that in a big history writeup with a story overview for both BHG Core. Although was Stoat's infection ever public knowledge? I've heard differing opinions and it's somewhat hard to find the information I seek on the forums. If you know anything though that'd be greatly appreciated.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Moreover, regarding this quest: If Core is a fascist faction, and if that is what at heart sets them apart from the Order, shouldn't you just flesh that out?
Noted, will inject some more fascism into things. I'd say I've put small aspects of it into the writeup, but yeah there's probably not enough.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]What is the Core brand of 'peace'?
Peace through superior firepower Tongue

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Seeing that they risk lives and spend copious amounts of credits (from the magical deep Omicron money tree the Zoners discovered first) on research and war machinery, it suggests that 'peace' in the Omicrons is something very specific - why else would you go through such an ordeal? What world order are they trying to establish out in the Omicrons?
Removal of all hostile threats in the Edge Worlds and creation of a 'peaceful' empire under the rule of The Core. They want to grow strong and powerful, hopefully someday becoming a great nation.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Essentially: Who the hell are the Core and why should anyone care?
The only lawful faction in the Edge Worlds with an Agenda that can potentially benefit the locals and those who join The Core. They are also beneficial to other factions because they are a means of obtaining advanced alien technologies. They also boast that they are far better suited to dealing with the Nomad threat than The Order are, though of course secretly they have their own selfish agendas.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:The Council had always favoured the BHG Core above the standard Bounty Hunters Guild and was the organization that took in all the funds. Whereas the BHG Core were noble Paladins simply trying to eradicate evil in their conquest, the general image of the BHG was that they were petty criminals working for the Guild simply because they had no other option.

What?
The hierarchy structure of the organization as a whole was always BHG Council > BHG Core > BHG.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:They were dragged from their prisons and thrust into the Bounty Hunting profession as part of their reformation, however this often did not make them forget their previous criminal habits.

What? You know full well that there's just a handful of rumours and infocards mentioning how some criminals turned into Hunters. It's in no way the norm; it wasn't in old BHG| and it isn't in new BHG| either, even though current leadership seem to prefer us to make ex con characters and take bribes from our targets rather than shoot them. I don't think BHG should be fashioned by Core in this way, this document should solely be about the Core and not make any conclusions on behalf of the BHG.
I tried to sort of base things around Impy's BHG|, to signify both the splits and the changes in direction of the two factions. I guess maybe in that regard it was bad showing Impy the writeup, as he'd be more inclined to lean towards the more criminal side of BHG.
Though I've always felt that general attitudes across Sirius is that Bounty Hunters are the scummiest of the scummiest, partially (or maybe mostly?) due to them recruiting criminals into the faction. Either way that would not benefit The Core by being dragged down by such reputation.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Such an image would not fit for the agenda which The Guild Council had in mind. It wouldn't draw in more well trained recruits, it wouldn't benefit their diplomacy and it wouldn't gather support for their cause.

And what agenda is this? You talk about Core viewing themselves as noble paladins contrary to the dirty dirty hunters, but then there's the shady Ouroboros or whatever plot device thing, the extreme zealousness with which Core enforces their laws, their fascist strive for order and "pacification of the omicrons". If a Core character sees himself as a "noble paladin" when he guns down an unarmed Zoner he must either be stark raving mad or heavily manipulated/brainwashed. Or is he just pretending to be a noble paladin, and if so what is his sinister motive precisely? It's so bloody random...
I axed Ouroboros completely because it was a poor idea made by my lack of effort to hone my writing skills. It wasn't legitimate in the face of disco imo as it seemed like a crutch where I could just go "oh yeah we get everything from ouro" and ironically it'd bring Core back to having the same sort of excuse that BHG Core had for it's funding and supply: having x faction being able to supply them near infinitely. And the original concept of getting the corporate factions involed was too messy and complicated. Furthermore if I roleplayed with something such as that, if Core| went unofficial by lore the next faction would be forced to RP with the concept of 'Ouroboros' watching over them. Good riddance to it I say. I'm actually really surprised no one came out running to point out all of the large errors associated with it.

Anyway, back onto your point. What you describe is the basics of Core RP. On the outside we like to act as noble Paladins of justice who work towards the greater good, but inside we're far more cruel and cold in our methodology. Something I want to write about later is how with modern Core Nodtviet crosses the original Navy-like structure of BHG Core when it was lead by Guildmaster Graves/DeVirgo in it's early days with the unrelenting zealousness, cultism and brutal hatred of how Guildmater Varrus/Kyras lead BHG Core when the faction was pushed into a hard spot by The Order and the Corsairs. The sinister motive is that the only concern of the pilot if the well-being of The Core - a 'great' military force with 'noble' goals. When dealing with Zoners normally they are instructed to treat them like civilians, however when they carry items worthwhile to The Core there should be no emotion shown when seizing them.


(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]That's where I stopped reading. I still don't have a ***** clue what The Core is doing in the Omicrons, where they got their Capital ships and technology from, or how they couped the BHG and APM.
Origin of capital ships is explained in BHG Core lore, but yeah I'll be making a big history writeup to tie everything nicely together in a single thread for people to access easily. There was no coup of BHG and technically no coup of APM; BHG was broken off from and APM has been absorbed.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]I think its problematic to leave a document like this that deals with two NPC factions in the hands of one person / one faction, just because there's no current official BHG faction and invisible leadership. It's counter-productive to the mod overall.
Understandable, it is somewhat like walking in a room full of mousetraps when writing something like this, however I assure you Impy and I have been working together on this.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Long story short: I think Core has what it takes be a great player faction. A skype clan with a theme. However the Vanilla material is of infinitely higher quality than the player additions. When players try to bridge gaps or somehow draw some legitimacy for their own projects by using Vanilla factions and lore, they run the risk of damaging the original lore.
BHG Core sort of took the shortcut and made itself a hobbyist faction with an intended purpose to try and justify the BHG Caps. I won't hold back in making that statement (regardless how cool I thought the faction was xD) and the original lore does have holes in.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]I think that is what Core is doing - you are taking something pretty bad (player created BHG Core faction), and in an attempt to make it a little better; you are doing damage to something that is and always have been of infinitely higher quality (BHG created and fleshed out by Digital Anvil / Chris Roberts).
Well... lets be honest BHG isn't that fleshed out by Digital Anvil. The faction is pretty basic. Though don't get me wrong that can still be somewhat strong enough to hold in disco I guess. I am trying as hard a I can to not do any damage, the only area which is a box of bombs and bandaids is the split really.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Why not just scratch Core or be a little bit more humble in your faction description, to the point where you don't have to coup and gimp both APM and the BHG| to be succesful?
Well of course I have no intention of striking out Core. As I have stated there is no coup, imo there is no gimping beyond just breaking off. I will say that one of the reasons why I absorb APM is to avoid retards like that APM| group trying to drag out the faction lore from both factions and beat it up with a baseball bat. Such things have pushed me towards enforcing more control, for the sake of both Core and BHG.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Why not set out to draft a document with absolutely 0 conflict between BHG and Core regarding the APM split? It is very possible to do so without taking away from either faction. If Jammi and other responsible people have really had an influence on this document, I don't understand why they didn't help you a little more with that specifically, with the overall benefit of the mod in mind.
My writeup doesn't take anything away and has as little conflict as possible. If you have any ideas though throw them at me via skype.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: No, I won't let this go Big Grin If the faction write-up had been so absolutely amazing that BHG could go take a hike, I wouldn't care if Core encroached on BHG stuff. On the same note, I wouldn't care how bad the write-up is if Core stayed away from BHG and all that was and is BHG's. It's when Core oversteps those limits it becomes a problem, and that seems to be the only direction you are interested in taking Core in: Power-grab or nothing, and I think it's irresponsible that you are gunning for that just because you can.
If you could outline all those 'power-grabs' exactly and limits that have been 'overstepped', that would be appreciated. I do not seek to steal anything from BHG, all I seek to do is to have plausible lore for my faction so that I can finally stop having to tinker with background and can focus more on moving my faction forward.

(06-30-2015, 12:43 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT 2: I have a bunch of ideas if you want input to ways you could craft your faction to actually make it interesting, relevant and unique, without having to steal from other factions.
Sure, pass them to me via skype and I'll have a look at them.



(06-30-2015, 02:24 PM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]Can you maybe state once more ( or link to a satisfactory explanation that has already been given ) ... why exactly the old BHG core lore was abandoned?

All in all - the old Core lore by Igiss explained things much better and had a lot less holes in it. .. It did put more limitations on the expression of reasonable roleplay of the Core in place. ( as in - it said exactly and very precisely what the core was after and how the core operated )
Abandoned? How so? I even link the BHG Core wiki page in our information thread to emphasis that BHG Core lore has not been forgotten. I'm pretty sure there's no chance I'd get away with retconning the lore of an NPC faction.

What was Igiss's lore?

(06-30-2015, 02:24 PM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]- decided that dabadoru is much more than just its original intent - which is a small supply depot
Factions eventually grow and evolve. Dabadoru being supply depot, and eventually turning into a proper installation, is something that occurred way before my time.

(06-30-2015, 02:24 PM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]- power and size of the fleet to enforce a sort of law
We're not weak. The Core, that unlike it's previous incarnations, puts more focus on meeting the 'Empire' goal than it's predecessors did. We have the greatest influence in Delta, complete control over Rho, some influence in Zeta but not as much as the two former systems. Basically, the military and economical development of Core is by no means at a standstill: it grows.

(06-30-2015, 02:24 PM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]- plans ( no idea if they are still up to date, realized or abandoned ) about an outpost/part colonization of a delta planet
They are up to date and somewhat realized. After the Nauru event I'm putting my focus back on them.

(06-30-2015, 02:24 PM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]Now i do not know how multilateral (and by that i don t mean chats with devs - but chats and agreements with other factions that have business in the area) those claims have been - hence asking for sources.
Check the archive section of our sub-forums for relevant links. Sadly that's not everything as some threads are either in various corners of the forums or have been permanently lost via server moves etc. Furthermore a lot of stuff is discussed on skype between the factions involved to make sure things are kept updated and legitimate.

(06-30-2015, 02:24 PM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]to close here - personally, i greatly prefer the old lore that Igiss had written up for the Core. It made them kind of special - and much more than yet another mindless thug faction that is based on firepower to oppress or achieve their goals.
It was much more a political faction with strong ties to unethical research under black ops liberty cover. (opposed to the civilian backed Order that had just gained a huge political and popularity boast at the end of the nomad wars)
What makes 'mindless thugs' great is that there IS a mind behind those thugs controlling the operation. What I love about Core is how although on the surface they can seem very brutish but underneath that exterior there's a lot more depth. I don't see other factions in disco that RP a sort of 'Lawful Evil' that can be found within Core.

I'm guessing the second part of your statement is a small reference to Igiss's lore? Well I can't really be blamed for that. From the looks of things BHG Core are the ones who abandoned such lore as it's not on their writeups. It's not referenced in game either. (Possibly?) I speak for BHG Core in saying that a faction without it's own independence and creative freedom would not be that fun to develop. In fact it leads back to the problem I explained with Ouroboros and having APM controlling Core: I can't have Core existing without it's own self-determination as future incarnations may be dragged down also.

Anyway, current Core is still a very political faction that still has very strong ties to doing unethical research. Although it's not house stuff, it does concern itself with Edge Worlds politics (which in regards to the faction itself is far more important). Core conducts all sorts of unethical research within Omicron Rho, in order to be at the cutting edge of the technological race in the Omicrons and Omegas.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but imo a "heck yeah murica!" backed faction in the Edge Worlds would be kind of bland. Makos with stars and stripes doesn't seem to fit. You'd also actually have to get the Lib Gov to back such RP, and to continually partake in it. Perhaps that lore may have had less plot holes in but it sounds really boring and uninteresting.
Heya, thanks for your patience. I've tried not to nitpick too much this time roundSmile

Quote:How: launching very small raids against Corsairs in the Edge Worlds.
What: taking elite bounty hunting contracts in the Omicrons against the Outcasts and the Corsairs.
Why: money.

If this is the core of Core (I made a funny!), shouldn't it be elaborated? Also, this certainly gives some problems: To hunt those bounties, you need capital ships first - to have capital ships, you need credits first.

If you want Core to "just" be a PMC, maybe you should write a story with one big client (eg. the old Liberty connection) funding the show and getting Core started. It seems odd to "take elite bounty contracts against Outcasts and Corsairs", when there is no faction in the game offering any such bounties. Moreover, if Core is a PMC and that's how you make a living and came into existence, you'll have wealthy patrons / Core would be in the pocket of whoever pays the contract - that's something you've left out as well, and a definite chink in Core's armor (as in, those Zoners you should could make a compelling complaint to Core's patrons, and in turn you'd be put in your place etc.). Specifics, specifics, specifics!

Quote:Removal of all hostile threats in the Edge Worlds and creation of a 'peaceful' empire under the rule of The Core. They want to grow strong and powerful, hopefully someday becoming a great nation.

Well I think you should flesh out the specifics of this Empire, rather than say "Core wanted an Empire, so they went out and made themselves one, the end". Why? Inrp why would people join the Core cause and die for it, when everything is so extremely loosely defined? When people are said to die for peace, there's always an underlying specific nature to that peace - eg. the "peace" Western Europe fought for during WWII was a democratic US-aligned peace, rather than a nazi or communist peace, and there are plenty of other fault lines than just the political. In the practical world, peace always have associated connotations. It's never vague, even when unarticulated.

Quote:The only lawful faction in the Edge Worlds with an Agenda that can potentially benefit the locals

I am fairly certain I can find some local Zoners that disagree...

Quote:The hierarchy structure of the organization as a whole was always BHG Council > BHG Core > BHG.

I'm not too sure about that - sure on Guildmaster level, some roleplay might have been had, but back in the day when membership of BHG| granted you membership of BHG Core, I had no sense of the hierarchy at all - the two factions were for all intents for most players seperate (even though membership overlapped 1:1). It's unthinkable that a BHG Core character back then would propose some notion of hierarchy towards the BHG, at least the way I experienced the two factions.

In fact, if you look at BHG lore (from which Core spun out of), one of the defining traits is the distinct lack of a hierarchy within the organization, save for a guild master that is more of an administrator than a leader of minions.

Quote:Though I've always felt that general attitudes across Sirius is that Bounty Hunters are the scummiest of the scummiest, partially (or maybe mostly?) due to them recruiting criminals into the faction.

If you look at how some of the most prolific bounty hunters have been roleplayed, they've been more or less the knights in shining armor. True, there's some ambiguity to the role, but in reality most players opt for a clean-cut hunter; which to me is absolutely fine, even though I of course play a scumbag. Either way, it's for BHG players to decide, and most definitely not for the Core...

Quote:Either way that would not benefit The Core by being dragged down by such reputation.

I also think it's problematic that you make defining assumptions on behalf of the BHG in this document. To my understanding, as an at times fairly avid BHG player, the Bounty Hunters Guild have an EXTREMELY upstanding reputation with many, many years of stellar service to the houses. Heck, they are preregistered on lawful boards - their reputation is so positive that they are allowed entry on the boards on face value alone. But that's to change because Lyth wants an empire and a ship line? There's some of these "oversights" in your document, and I think it is absolutely impassable as a legitimate piece of lore paper as long as they are there.

Leave BHG and any and all assumptions regarding them totally out of this draft, that's not for Core to influence or manipulate at all.

Quote:On the outside we like to act as noble Paladins of justice who work towards the greater good, but inside we're far more cruel and cold in our methodology

Those Zoners you've been pewing probably disagree on your views on "the greater good". Flesh out this greater good, what is it that Core wants exactly, rather than use bland and vague terms. Again what is this greater good exactly, when it requires Core to have hidden agendas when it comes to methodology?

Quote:Understandable, it is somewhat like walking in a room full of mousetraps when writing something like this, however I assure you Impy and I have been working together on this.

No offense, but it's a terrible idea to have a work-like relationship with your friends, you don't get that needed balance because other interests are at play. I think you should open it up more to the general public or not choose to cooperate with a faction leader who, and again pardon my bluntness, mostly have served as an obstacle to the BHG| since a bunch of players tried to revitalize the faction and he said he was the leader (even though there were seasoned BHG| vets in there). The amount of pushing and shoving we had to do to even get a faction page thrown up on the forum, and to open recruitment - which I am still not entirely sure has opened. I wouldn't say Impy's mandate is all that justified, to be frank, but you yourself forced us to just roll with everything because you - as you said - don't care about stealing Mantas when there's no official BHG faction to stop you. I'm not assured.

Quote:If you could outline all those 'power-grabs' exactly and limits that have been 'overstepped', that would be appreciated.

Thank you. It's in the offset, Lyth. Do you remember your first response when I opened the Dance of the Mantas on skype, about the void of a BHG official faction and the position it put Core in? That worries me a lot, because I think you were being absolutely honest, even though you did back-pedal a little later.

Look at your faction description. It is solely about dividing assets. We understand that Core and APM is one and the same, and that APM holds the rights over Mantas and such. What we don't know is who Core are, and what they really want. Your focus has - from start to end - been on the assets, not on developing the faction and making it come to life.

Everything is described top-down: APM did this, leadership did that, Empire ensued. If you were serious, you would have gone about it the other way: What goes through the mind of an average Joe when he signs up for the Core? Why would he want to? What does the world look like through his eyes, and what influence did those views have on the decision to join the Core? What alternative does Core ofter to the current day Omicrons? What is the Core utopia that people are willing to die for?

Personally I'd much prefered a story about the filth and corruption in the Omicrons; an anti-thesis to the Zoner story of freedom from House tyranny. The other side of the coin where lawlessness rules; where Outcasts and Corsairs fraternize on Zoner installations, where ethically questionable research is conducted, and where selfishness and greed is the norm. A story about how Core are hyper-vigilantes on a moral crusade - a story in which they are noble paladins on a quest for order in the Omicron chaos when viewed from one angle, and brutal and oppressive fascists when viewed from another. Elaborate on that contrast, put it into words directly. Maybe even create some totalitarian symbols and flesh out an ideology a little bit - not something overly intricate, just some things to support the story. I'd like a story linked much more to character drama, rather than static things like who has ownership of the Manta. There's a lot of different directions you could take the story in.

This story is totally void of anything vibrant or "living", it's a super static story that is structured completely around the (BHG!) assets.

Now why do that if you weren't interested in having the rights to the Manta? Is this really the "best" angle to tell the Core story from?

To further add to it, the "oversights" you make on behalf of the BHG aids the Core agenda (what a surprise). You try to put a hierarchical structure in place with Core on top as if that's how it's always been, the way you portray the BHG reputation, and that it is crucial to you that APM and Core are so closely intertwined that by all intents and purposes, the Manta is a Core ship rather than a BHG ship. Your entire write-up is about how that ship tech cell belongs to you, and not much else.

If you weren't interested in power and just wanted to make a really cool faction, I am certain you would do it differently.

Good day! Smile
Wow congrats Lyth, you really upped your naughty words were here delivery. You would do great in a corporation.
(07-01-2015, 12:04 PM)Scumbag Wrote: [ -> ]Wow congrats Lyth, you really upped your ***** delivery. You would do great in a corporation.

I agree with you on this one. It looks like this Core faction it's like a second life for this player. I am amazed by the free time put into that wall of text full of crazy explanations.
if u lik i can put 0 work in2 my replise mayb add a dank meme or 2.

I don't mean to troll however I could act like other faction leaders and not take my feedback seriously, maybe even ignore it completly o just lock this thread. It's well within my rights to pay no attention to anything Mímir says but I'd rather try to tweak things to a good standard. And that means I'll do as much digging as possible in order to be able to present all the facts and to respond to Mímir's points.

Mímir I'll respond to you later when I'm at a computer.
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