The sanction has been revoked after a member thats currently banned gave me the little thing I asked for. What I find problematical here is that this came from someone who cant even play on the server, instead of the people that were affected by it.
I definitely dont see why it would have been that hard for the sanctioned party to simply make a post, showing why they were hostile to the group in question.
Jammi, I'd also appreciate if you wouldnt jump into conclusions if you havent seen the evidence submitted, as that was rather clear and did not show that the sanctioned party was in some kind of hostile relationship with the other side, the roleplay in question also was not necessarily something I'd have expected from an official faction.
I appreciate that you point out issues, but as you just mentioned, the whole picture matters.
(05-19-2015, 12:10 PM)Jansen Wrote: [ -> ]The sanction has been revoked after a member thats currently banned gave me the little thing I asked for. What I find problematical here is that this came from someone who cant even play on the server, instead of the people that were affected by it.
I definitely dont see why it would have been that hard for the sanctioned party to simply make a post, showing why they were hostile to the group in question.
Jammi, I'd also appreciate if you wouldnt jump into conclusions if you havent seen the evidence submitted, as that was rather clear and did not show that the sanctioned party was in some kind of hostile relationship with the other side, the roleplay in question also was not necessarily something I'd have expected from an official faction.
I appreciate that you point out issues, but as you just mentioned, the whole picture matters.
Given that the screens they probably submitted have been posted all over the forums, the wider situation is under scrutiny in the RM feedback thread and there are Kruger blanket bounties currently being claimed by the VFK... I'd say it isn't me acting too hastily.
I assumed everyone is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.
Like Jammi said I think you were too quick to post this sanction.
Do factions have to post about every enemy they encounter as backup for them engaging said enemy?
The IMG BB clearly says :
Quote:All Freelancers shooting IMG are targetted by this bounty. If a Freelancer shoots at the IMG, we shoot back. Make sure to include the "Bounty on you" part in your report.
Claimable:
- Sirius-Wide
• Freelancer shooting IMG: $5,000,000
The group in question uses freelancer ID so I'm pretty sure they fall into that category.
I'm not even gonna mention the threads involving IMG, RM, RFP, VFK, Kruger .....
What exactly was the reasoning behind this sanction? I fail to understand it.
So a group of freelancers shoot down IMG vessels, yet IMG cannot retaliate because ......what? It wouldn't be fair to the freelancer group? Should the IMG make it official on the forum that they consider them enemies? I think from the fact that they hunt IMG it's kinda implied, don't you?
Quote:What I find problematical here is that this came from someone who cant even play on the server, instead of the people that were affected by it.
As admins frequently say about themselves, IMG members have lives outside disco as well.
What I find problematic is that you failed to find the "little thing you asked for" so you quickly jumped to sanctioning.
You guys should really worry more about proxy factions created just to grief specific people/factions, and I could cite a few of those comming from rheinland faction players, like the latest example, instead of wasting time going after this ridiculous reports made also just to grief people.
Other thing that worries me lately is that "permanent" and "indefinite time" means just a couple weeks.
All IMG players, please stand down here.
The case has been dealt with.
Thank you to Jammi for arguing my point in my absence.
Thank you, Jansen, for reversing the sanction.
I've written more in the sanction thread that I don't want to repeat in here.
I consider this case as closed.
No harm done. *shrugs* Let's play the game.
Jack
so why is alte unbanned and divine not
lol
Let's play the game, Jack? What game? I see just ID.Abuser.2015 and Forum.Lancer: Better.Stay.Docked V.4.88. We all see how many good old players are leaving due to increased level of dicky moves. We all see new players can't learn rules for months or even years. Are new players bad? Or, you know... rules?
It's admins fault. They let this game stay hard to play fair, not repairing obvious abusable points for years. They try to compensate, they push more and try to do their jobs, they read all the crap we write, all the threads and reports and they fight for justice and... just more crap incoming. Stop and think - for a change, mates. Every day I read about yet another way to abuse Disco for spoiling someone's fun. Today it's about average Disco player shooting some faction and he reports when they shoot him back. And it passes somehow. Games shouldn't work this way (only life does). It's not true no damage was done, Jack. Just please do not pretend there is no damage. It's small, but it piles up.
So admins, let me say it open: your job sucks and it's your fault. You fight windmills and what did you do to change it? How awesome, admins made another bad judgement - we say too often. You work, you try hard, but you fail anyway. Do you have a list of game simplifications, admins? I mean, look at FL ID - for example. It's neutral, but good for shooting people - in the same time. What did you expect from a kind of players YOU grow for years on this server?
[/bad attitude mode]
With best intentions and on my own risk,
Pepe
Pepe pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I'd like to stress that I'm most often the guy who says "Poor Admins, they really do a thankless job." and argue with people in that area, but I can't really say that anymore as it seems that most of the pain you guys get is self-inflicted. Firstly this entire sanction was sketchy from the start, and it was concluded that it was based on rather poor evidence - you can read Jammi's posts for further details. I'd like to add that the line "Hey thank the guy we permabanned" perplexed the living hell out of me, as it showed that someone who you deemed should not be in the community was actually changing things in the community. (No grudges, I don't even know the guy)
However if we pull back a bit, we can see that the entire situation rose from the very poorly thought-out ID change. In handling that, you also made rather big missteps. No rationale was given as to why the change was made which left the thread in a state of permanent speculation, not to mention that it made it seem like you were stepping towards removing RP consequences, and also completely disregarding however many years it has been of RP for those regions (as well as vanilla lore).
The recent decisions really make it seem like you're setting up a Rube Goldberg device that will eventually just slam the button that says "INCINERATE SELF" .
If you really think things are all that bad, and that we're the problem here. Just say the word and i'll take my own leave. If i've failed as an individual, so be it.
I don't get paid. I don't get a thank you. I'm doing this because Discovery has been something important (oddly enough) - As i've found it really enjoyable. If i'm a problem in making it less enjoyable to everyone as a whole, speak up. I'll deal with myself as I try to deal with other matters.
I'm sorry to say this is the internet, Radcon. Pity parties and slashing wrists don't really work to calm over the tides.
Anyways. I've been venting on different skype channels for a while about this to see if it would change my outlook on this and it hasn't. The number of changed, reversed, or removed admin decisions has increased quite a bit. This makes me wonder if choices are being made just to push out the paperwork before it piles up. It's a terrible thing to have some say admins take forever to make decisions and others saying you are rushing it, but it's what's going on.
If the admins could take a bit of time to think out the choices they make, maybe inform the community that you are taking more time to make sure the choice is correct, there would be less need to go back and clean up.